Time for an all-pixie campaign

[AbdulAlhazred]

To be fair, that trend already existed in 4Ed- Minotaurs, Githzerai, Goliath's are, IMHO already examples of races that got hit with the Whitebread stick in the interests of balance, and they're not the only ones.. Not everyone agrees, of course, but I can tell you for a fact I'm not alone in this view.

Yeah, and of course there's no one specific perfect balance between the two that will satisfy all of us of course. The Minotaurs and Goliaths didn't bother me much really, as they come off pretty well in play and you can at least squint and argue about large vs medium, and large PCs really are a bother. Not so much for balance reasons as just "how do I fit in here?" moments.

Githzerai I think is sort of like other monster races, one way or another they tend to get mutilated unless they're rather vanilla humanoids, and then they're less interesting. Anyway, even the MM Giths feel more like "I practiced to get this way" vs a race with specific innate powers. You certainly can't make a PC that looks exactly like a Cenobite or a Zerth, but you have similar options and my take on Gith statblocks is they're just examples of specific Giths you can use, not "all Githzerai are like this."

I guess pixies fall somewhat into the same category, but at least they aren't even a defined monster in 4e at this point, so it is less jarring. Still, we agree on one thing, a Small, can only hop around, smacking stuff around with normal sized weapons pixie just ain't right! In any case I think it is high time we just had "well, you asked for it by using this race" kind of stuff. Some idiot will be a munchkin with it, but he won't get within 10' of my table!

 

[interwyrm]

You don't *really* need magic to explain altitude limits.

Ground effect (aircraft) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rechan]

To be fair, that trend already existed in 4Ed- Minotaurs, Githzerai, Goliath's are, IMHO already examples of races that got hit with the Whitebread stick in the interests of balance

Meh. The Goliath's only claim to fame was that they could use large weapons/use large size bonuses. 4e doesn't use size bonuses or weapon size.

Goliaths are bland because goliaths are bland.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

Pixie with a two handed sword. Like Cloud with wings

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The Goliath's only claim to fame was that they could use large weapons/use large size bonuses.

And yet, some of us thought that was cool.

4e doesn't use size bonuses or weapon size.

They could have had Giant like melee damage potential, and they really don't.

 

[Rechan]

And yet, some of us thought that was cool.

Which is fine and dandy if the system had those things, but it doesn't.

They could have had Giant like melee damage potential, and they really don't.

Except that I'm looking at Giants and I don't see any damage expressions that are different from other monsters of their role and level. In fact the only thing that Giants have are something related to their elemental schtick.

There's nothing mechanically unique about all giants, so there's nothing for the goliaths to mimic.

So it's not an issue of "balance taking the cool away".

 

[Zaran]

Pixie with a two handed sword. Like Cloud with wings

Halflings can't even use two-handed swords.

I can see them saying that all one-handed weapons can be used two-handed by a pixie . Anything that is versatile and or outright two-handed would be too large. As a GM I probably wouldn't even allow that. But a pixie to me is 6" tall. Everything about them would be special case. Does that mean they shouldn't be added? No. I think it's really great. I just hope they don't try to stuff a pixie into the current molds.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

Halflings can't even use two-handed swords.

I can see them saying that all one-handed weapons can be used two-handed by a pixie . Anything that is versatile and or outright two-handed would be too large. As a GM I probably wouldn't even allow that. But a pixie to me is 6" tall. Everything about them would be special case. Does that mean they shouldn't be added? No. I think it's really great. I just hope they don't try to stuff a pixie into the current molds.

I'm a long time Earthdawn player, windlings in that (18" tall) can use 2' short swords as two handers. Thats what i want really.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Except that I'm looking at Giants and I don't see any damage expressions that are different from other monsters of their role and level. In fact the only thing that Giants have are something related to their elemental schtick.

There's nothing mechanically unique about all giants, so there's nothing for the goliaths to mimic.

While they did do away with size-based damage boosts across the board, they did retain reach. And all of the giants have reach, even with non-reach weapons. Giving Goliaths reach of 1 would have been a way to echo 3.5Ed's Powerful Build mechanics in a mechanic completely keeping with 4Ed's treatment of giants.

Beyond that, Goliaths- as well as the other races I mentioned- had something else completely absent in 4Ed that was sacrificed at the Altar of Balance, namely, stat mods beyond +2. While you may like this, to me its ridiculous: Goliaths (as well as Dragonborn and, as I recall, Minotaurs) get the same Str mod as Half-Orcs, a race they outmass by x2 or more. Simply silly, IMHO.

And again, a simple additional +2 to Str would have modeled Powerful Build just fine.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Except that I'm looking at Giants and I don't see any damage expressions that are different from other monsters of their role and level. In fact the only thing that Giants have are something related to their elemental schtick.

There's nothing mechanically unique about all giants, so there's nothing for the goliaths to mimic.

So it's not an issue of "balance taking the cool away".

Y'know, I look at this statement, and I come to a completely different final sentence.

Giants are like every other monster. Goliaths are like every other race. Balance has taken the cool away!

On the other hand, I think having goliaths be so similar has encouraged me to find ways to make them very distinct in my campaigns, which has lead to them being used a lot more often. It's all fluff, but goliaths IMC tend to emphasize their benevolent primitivity and their embrace of the harsh elements of their homes. They're less about the big weapons and hard-hitting fighters (which was boring to me in their 3e premiere, since "big warrior guy" is already a well-worn place for a bunch of races), more about the toughness and isolation of living in the snowy mountains, a bond with the primal world, and a sort of druidic tradition that doesn't mandate frolicking in the woods with the faeries, but more staying out naked in the blizzard, starving yourself, taking psychoactive mushrooms, to become one with the natural world.

But mechanically, yeah, there's not much difference between Goliaths, Minotaurs, Dwarves, Half-Orcs, Warforged.....