Time to Reflect on 3.5 Disappointments

KenM · Oct 17, 2003

I have a very good source tell me that the bean counters at WOTC put pressure on the 3.5 designers to get it out ASAP. It was for money.

MeepoTheMighty · Oct 17, 2003

I'm glad after six months of worrying about 3.5 and then another 3 months of complaining about it, it's finally time to reflect on disappointment.

WizarDru · Oct 17, 2003

HiLiphNY said:
Over the last two years, I don't seem to find Dragon as relevent as I did before. Now, I have been playing Monte Cook's AU since the whole 3.5 fiasco, but I still love the FR products and am eagerly awaiting the Underdark piece. Notwithstanding that, I think that in general, The WotC/Paizo work has gotten a little weak.

Actually, in many ways, I think it's gotten better in the last year, in particular. The Adventure Path series is being recieved to generally very good reviews, myself included. Dragon is using a much tighter focus now, for good or ill, but I think you should ask yourself, is the content poorer, or do you just find less of a need for it, now that you're fully familiar with 3e? In the first few months of 3e, it was a big help to the game...then came the theme months, which I didn't like, generally.

I suspect, from your description, you really don't want more rules content, you want more setting content, which would mean that a good chunk of WotC's output for the last three years isn't of much value to you. That's not poorer content, it's less satisfying or useful to you, personally. I think Savage Species, for example, is a very solid book, much better than I anticipated. I think, the splatbooks generally got better, not worse, over time. I think that the BoVD is a generally good, if not bland, book. I think Manual of the Planes is the pinnacle of well-written books, but that doesn't show a decline in quality, as there were supplements immediately before and after that I thought weren't nearly as good.

3.5 has allowed me to remove the few house rules I had (four), and the 3.5 errata has removed the one new one I had added. And, as I've mentioned before elsewhere on the boards, if not for those bean counters, we'd have another TSR meltdown on our hands.

If you're looking for me to argue that you should continue a Dragon subscription, you'll be waiting a while. It sounds like you haven't enjoyed the content for a while...so there's no reason to renew, IMHO.

Desdichado · Oct 17, 2003

I'd agree with WizarDru completely; if anything, I think Dragon is better than it's ever been. However, despite that, unfortunately for them, I have less need of their material anymore. So I also feel somewhat apathetic towards Dragon (and I always have towards Dungeon) but not because of the quality.

I'm also not sure what the change to 3.5 has to do with any of this though; I felt that way before the change, and I can't see how anything much has changed in that regard.

BryonD · Oct 17, 2003

Hello HiLiphNY,

Question for you.

If 3.5 was a money grab, what was 3E?

Thanks

jasper · Oct 17, 2003

I see no difference in the quality. In the 80's, 90's and 00's they all had hit or miss issues. between editions 2 to 3. Writing and rules are tighter than second. Am I happy that 3.5 is out so soon yes. Am I happy with the new everything is square no. Do I worry about everyone and his brother now whats to play a half dragon, clelestial half ogre. So what else is new except for the critter wanting to played.

diaglo · Oct 17, 2003

BryonD said:
Hello HiLiphNY,

Question for you.

If 3.5 was a money grab, what was 3E?

Thanks

diaglo "filling in for hong. let me. pick me. let me answer this one. Pleaz

" Ooi.

DMScott · Oct 17, 2003

The only thing about 3.5 that disappointed me was the lack of new artwork. Rules changes are fine, and as I live in the real world I'm not upset with WOTC for being in the business of making money.

So far as Dragon goes, I'm not a subscriber, I just buy an issue any time the theme interests me. I haven't seen any downward trend in quality; indeed, the trend has been generally upward since the initial 3.0 issues, in which some truly awful stuff saw the light of day.

JRRNeiklot · Oct 17, 2003

BiggusGeekus@Work said:
And the 3.5 rules are free in the SRD sponsored by WotC ....

Great, at least I don't have to pay for crap. Free crap is still crap.

Tsyr · Oct 17, 2003

BryonD said:
Hello HiLiphNY,

Question for you.

If 3.5 was a money grab, what was 3E?

Thanks

3.0 was an honest revision. There were signifigant, major changes to the game... I would go so far as to call it a total redesign from the ground up.

3.5 was erata that they tried to pass off as a new edition.