D&D 5E Time Tracking in 5E, Concentration, Save at Start or End

[JohnTitusRenzi]

Tracking saving throw times and concentration is too difficult.

Concentration is a part of nearly half of all spells.

For example, would a Paladin really bother with Shield of Faith
giving AC+2 if he just loses that spell when casting Bless which
also requires concentration?

Why do the gaming mechanics use minutes at all?
Why not just say concentration for 10/10 turns?
Or concentration for encounter duration?

Many maneuvers such as Feint Attack and spell effects such as
Searing Smite and Hunter's Mark should start before the attack.
Why make the character wait until his next attack?
Seems like the designers are a bit confused with the wording on
much of this timing.

Now on to saving throws.
It is very difficult to remember and players often forget when
to role a save.
What the game wants is to have the spell effect during the target's turn.
Have all the initial saves before the target takes damage.
Have all recurring saves at the end of the target's turns each round.
No more saves at the start of the target's or caster's turn, or at the end of the caster's
turn.

In summary,
Saving throw timing needs to be simplified.
The target saves before taking initial damage or getting a damage condition.
The target saves again at the end of each of the target's turns.

Spell and Martial Effect timing needs to be simplified.
The spell, feat, maneuver grants advantage or adds damage, etc. instantaneously.
Spells that cause damage should require concentration.
If the spell increases armor class or abjures in some way, it shouldn't require
concentration.

 

[JohnTitusRenzi]

Here is another example. The player character Paladin wants to use Thunderous Smite. It says the effect starts the next melee weapon attack. But this Paladin gets only one attack. He's new so he doesn't remember that Thunderous Smite starts his next turn. Why? He should just get +2d6 thunder dmg instantly so that he has a chance to remember to use it his next turn.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

"Encounter duration" and "turns" are meaningless within context of the game world. "Turns" are at least somewhat useful in terms of gameplay - it helps you understand how to better adjudicate the passage of time - but "Encounter" is just gibberish. There's no such thing as an "Encounter" with a defined start or end.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Here is another example. The player character Paladin wants to use Thunderous Smite. It says the effect starts the next melee weapon attack. But this Paladin gets only one attack. He's new so he doesn't remember that Thunderous Smite starts his next turn. Why? He should just get +2d6 thunder dmg instantly so that he has a chance to remember to use it his next turn.

It seems like you're confused. Thunderous Smite has a casting time of "Bonus Action", because you're supposed to cast it on your turn and then attack with it immediately. He should only need to remember about it if his attack fails, in which case it will hang around until his next successful attack.

 

[JohnTitusRenzi]

Thanks for your comment help.

The bonus action is just to inform us that all we do is roll this extra damage if the weapon attack hits. The Paladin can choose to extend the Smite's extra damage with each weapon hit for 1 minute(10 turns).

The Paladin in doing so, must end the Shield of Faith spell granting AC+2 when casting a Smite.

The next attack wording is found in many spells and martial actions and should be eliminated from the game.

An encounter duration is when combat stops and all of your enemies, surrender, stop fighting, flee or are incapacitated, etc.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

In summary,
Saving throw timing needs to be simplified.
The target saves before taking initial damage or getting a damage condition.
The target saves again at the end of each of the target's turns.

Spell and Martial Effect timing needs to be simplified.
The spell, feat, maneuver grants advantage or adds damage, etc. instantaneously.
Spells that cause damage should require concentration.
If the spell increases armor class or abjures in some way, it shouldn't require
concentration.

If that's what you feel is the best way to play for your gaming group, then just go ahead and do it! That's the beauty of a tabletop game; we don't have to wait for the developers to change things we don't like. However, I think you'll find that not all groups have the same difficulties you do. So if you're saying that these things need to be changed for everybody... no, they don't.

 

[JohnTitusRenzi]

I see where you are coming from. I'm just trying to promote my house rules to any future errata and adventure writers who might be reading.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Thanks for your comment help.

The bonus action is just to inform us that all we do is roll this extra damage if the weapon attack hits. The Paladin can choose to extend the Smite's extra damage with each weapon hit for 1 minute(10 turns).

The Paladin in doing so, must end the Shield of Faith spell granting AC+2 when casting a Smite.

The next attack wording is found in many spells and martial actions and should be eliminated from the game.

I guess you could house rule it that way, but if you keep things the way they are in the book, it actually works pretty well. The bonus action means the paladin doesn't have to spend a whole turn just to cast the spell, which means it's roughly the same investment as just using the Divine Smite class ability that lets them turn spell slots into extra damage on a successful attack anyway. Really, the only difference between the Divine Smite class ability and the Thunderous Smite spell is that you have to cast the spell before your attack (which means you can't concentrate on another spell while you do so), and the spell does slightly less damage in exchange for the cool blasting effect.

If you let the Thunderous Smite last for the whole minute, and apply to every attack, then it's way better than Divine Smite and it's way better than the paladin spell that lets them add +1d4 to each successful attack. (I want to say it's Divine Favor? It's hard to keep all of those spells straight.)

A better way of balancing the Smite line of spells would be to say that you can cast them instantly, as soon as you hit with an attack, exactly like the Divine Smite class feature. That would solve the problem of not being able to use them while concentrating on a buff spell, while still keeping their damage in line with where it's supposed to be.

An encounter duration is when combat stops and all of your enemies, surrender, stop fighting, flee or are incapacitated, etc.

That definition is too vague to be useful. It's not always obvious who counts as an enemy, or when someone has "stopped" fighting.

 

[Aenorgreen]

Thanks for your comment help.

The bonus action is just to inform us that all we do is roll this extra damage if the weapon attack hits. The Paladin can choose to extend the Smite's extra damage with each weapon hit for 1 minute(10 turns).

The Paladin in doing so, must end the Shield of Faith spell granting AC+2 when casting a Smite.

The next attack wording is found in many spells and martial actions and should be eliminated from the game.

An encounter duration is when combat stops and all of your enemies, surrender, stop fighting, flee or are incapacitated, etc.

I think you may be confused. The spell only works for a single hit. You can concentrate and hold the spell for up to a minute, but all that is getting you is a delay until that first hit. You do not get it for each weapon hit during that minute. Usually it is completed immediately upon your turn, with the option to hold it longer if you missed.
As it is, except for some riders that are useful in specific circumstances, the paladin would be better off using their divine smite ability, which does not require concentration.

 

[JohnTitusRenzi]

Why would I cast it then delay risking losing concentration and the spell?