Titan Fighting

[IcyCool]

So, talk in the "Super Dwarf" thread caused me to look up this feat again in Races of Stone.

Benefit: When you designate a creature at least one size category larger than you as the target of your Dodge feat, you apply your racial dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type against attacks from that opponent (regardless of its creature type) instead of the +1 bonus granted by the Dodge feat.

So, if I'm reading that right, a dwarf (with this feat) in full plate with a heavy shield and a Dex of 13 would have the following AC against a Hill Giant that he has assigned his dodge to:

10 + 8 (full plate) + 2 (heavy shield) + 1 (Dex mod) + 4 (racial dodge bonus vs. giants) + 4 (dodge bonus from Titan Fighting) = 29.

Is that correct?

 

[Crothian]

It is terrible written, but I think that is how it works.

 

[werk]

Heh, yeah, that's rough.

It's not so bad if you replace "(regardless of its creature type)" with (to all creature types other than giant).

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Is that correct?

No.

A dwarf character has one - and only one - "dodge bonus to AC when fighting giants."

This feat allows a dwarf to apply that bonus against a broader range of creatures - anything bigger than him, in fact - but it in no way, shape, or form allows him to apply it multiple times.

In other words, a dwarf with this feat who designates a giant as the target of his dodge feat actually loses AC against that target (which I would houserule away to just not affecting the dwarf).

EDIT:

Some examples, using your base example:

So, if I'm reading that right, a dwarf (with this feat) in full plate with a heavy shield and a Dex of 13 would have the following AC against a Hill Giant that he has assigned his dodge to:

Without the feat, against a Hill Giant:

10 + 8 (full plate) + 2 (heavy shield) + 1 (Dex mod) + 4 (racial dodge bonus vs. giants) + 1 (Dodge feat) = 26

Without the feat, against a Hydra:

10 + 8 (full plate) + 2 (heavy shield) + 1 (Dex mod) + 1 (Dodge feat) = 22

With the feat, against a Hill Giant:

10 + 8 (full plate) + 2 (heavy shield) + 1 (Dex mod) + 4 (racial dodge bonus vs. giants) + 0 (Dodge feat replaced by racial dodge bonus vs. giants, already added) = 25

With the feat, against a Hydra:

10 + 8 (full plate) + 2 (heavy shield) + 1 (Dex mod) + 4 (Dodge feat, +1 replaced by racial dodge bonus vs. giants) = 25

EDIT2: Darn copy and paste errors!

 

[IcyCool]

No.

A dwarf character has one - and only one - "dodge bonus to AC when fighting giants."

This feat allows a dwarf to apply that bonus against a broader range of creatures - anything bigger than him, in fact - but it in no way, shape, or form allows him to apply it multiple times.

In other words, a dwarf with this feat who designates a giant as the target of his dodge feat actually loses AC against that target (which I would houserule away to just not affecting the dwarf).

Could you point out where it says that?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Could you point out where it says that?

Can you point out where it says he can use the same ability more than once?

How many abilities does the dwarf have named "+4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type"?

The feat changes Dodge from "Apply +1 Dodge AC against target" to "Apply your racial dodge bonus against Giants, regardless of creature type, against target." If the dwarf has already applied his "racial dodge bonus against Giants, regardless of creature type," he can't do so again.

 

[werk]

Not to be contrary, but:

Dodge Bonuses
...Unlike most sorts of bonuses, dodge bonuses stack with each other.

I can't find anything about racial dodge bonuses, but I'd think they are still dodge bonuses.
Edit: Actually, it is just a dodge bonus, per the text.

 

[IcyCool]

Not to be contrary, but:

Dodge Bonuses
...Unlike most sorts of bonuses, dodge bonuses stack with each other.

I can't find anything about racial dodge bonuses, but I'd think they are still dodge bonuses.
Edit: Actually, it is just a dodge bonus, per the text.

Exactly. Barring errata, I'm not sure why this doesn't stack. Could you clarify Patryn?

 

[Infiniti2000]

I almost agree with Patryn, including on the houserule (i.e. apply the normal Dodge feat against Giants). I question this, though:

(vs. Hydra) 10 + 8 (full plate) + 2 (heavy shield) + 1 (Dex mod) + 4 (racial dodge bonus vs. giants, feat) + 1 (Dodge feat) = 26

The +1 for the Dodge feat doesn't apply as the +4 is used instead.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Not to be contrary, but:

Dodge Bonuses
...Unlike most sorts of bonuses, dodge bonuses stack with each other.

I can't find anything about racial dodge bonuses, but I'd think they are still dodge bonuses.
Edit: Actually, it is just a dodge bonus, per the text.

Dodge bonuses stack, yes, and if you could get two +4 dodge bonuses, they would stack. What Patryn is saying, and I agree, is that you get to apply your Giant racial bonus instead of the Dodge feat against any creature larger than you. It does not say that you get to apply it twice against Giants. You just get to apply it against Giants, but then we already know that (thus the very poor wording of the feat).

Regardless, I think we all agree that the feat is specifically to allow you to convert your +1 Dodge into a +4 Dodge against non-Giants larger than you. Right? Against a Giant you specify, you get +5 Dodge.