Titan Shell - Flexibility ruling

[hailstop]

This came up in Friday's game. The Titan Shell has a power called Flexibility (at will; immediate interrupt, when the titan shell would be immobilized, restrained, pushed, pulled or slid) - The titan Shell makes a saving throw. On a save, the triggering effect is negated and the titan shell can make a necrotic slap attack as a free action.

I had originally forgotten about it when the Titan Shell was affected by a Turn Undead power (which on a hit causes a push and then immobilizes the undead monster).

The next round, I mentioned I had forgotten it, mentioned the power, but then said 'he just failed his save'. The two Tacticians in the party then argued that he would have only gotten one save against one of the conditions...against the push since that's the first one, and you only get one immediate action per turn.

I made two points. One, that since it is a monster power, I could easily just change it to read how I wanted it to work regardless but two, that the effect was "push then immobilize".

Was I right?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think I'd agree with the players. If a single power applies multiple effects to a target then generally they are all saved against with one save. This is a bit of an unusual case though as its not a normal save and its only allowed against a specific type of effect.

 

[hailstop]

I just realized that I'd worded it wrong. What the players actually claimed was that he'd only get a save against the push, but he would still be immobilized since the monster would only get one immediate action.

I think the issue here is that the players misunderstood the difference between 'effect' and 'condition'.

 

[abyssaldeath]

Was I right?

Nope, you were not. The push and the immobilization are two completely different effects. They only thing those two effects have in common is that they both only happen on a hit.

Flexibility is also an immediate Interrupt so it can only be used once per round. I don't believe it is suppose to negate all of the possible triggering effect at once. Flexibility says that it negates the triggering effect,singular.

 

[abyssaldeath]

I just realized that I'd worded it wrong. What the players actually claimed was that he'd only get a save against the push, but he would still be immobilized since the monster would only get one immediate action.

I think the issue here is that the players misunderstood the difference between 'effect' and 'condition'.

What definition of 'effect' are you using?

 

[Nifft]

Usually a power with multiple effects specifies how a save ends those effects:
- "effect and other effect (save ends both)"; or
- "effect (save ends) other effect (save ends)".

Since the power in question usually has no associated save, I'd say it's entirely within the DM's purview to choose if it's one effect or two effects -- and I'd argue that "the triggering effect is negated" means the whole Turn Undead hit could be negated, not just the forced movement or the immobilization.

Cheers, -- N