[to be moved] Expert class variants

[gpetruc]

I klnow that this topic has been discussed many times.
Anyway ...
I think the expert class could be much better that it is, so that it might be interesting also for PC or important NPC (and not only for merchants and sages and similar people).

I tried first to raise the skill points to 8 (as rouge; I already give 6 skill points to bards) but this didn't have interesting results: their knowledge became a little broader, but they weren't more "experts".

I also searched a bit around in the web and found something (for example in Middle Earth d20) but it was not what I wanted.

Something that could me more interesting might be to bypass the max skill ranks by a bit.

For example:
- Skill points: 8+int/level
- An expert must choose three skills, (related to the same buisness) and in these skills he can bypass the max skill rank by a number of points equals to 2+level/4. These are his "main skills"
- Also he gets free feats at lvl 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 that can be used to skill-related feats like skill focus & other +2/+2 combo feats.
- At level 7 he can choose another class skill to become main skill
- At level 10 he gets Skill Mastery (as rogue) in his main skills

Also, in my campaign I have the rule that NPC classes do not count for multiclassing XP penality.

Does anybody have interesting rules about expert class ?
Any comments to my idea (I still have to test it) ?

Thanks

edit: changed title to [to be moved] Expert class variants

 

[gpetruc]

wrong board

I posted the message on the wrong board. I wanted to post in House Rules (as it's obvious for the topic), but I clicked "new topic" in the wrong browser window.

Can I move it to that board (or could some moderator do it) ?

Sorry.

 

[Chacal]

I've done something similar (but not tested).
Basically, each Expert level gives specialisation points that are used to raise the cap for some skills. plus the skill feats.
Your system doesn't require much bookkeeping so I guess it's better.

There were some well designed experts with very clever circomstance and competence bonus in the Rogue gallery.


Of course, some will find that it breaks the logic of some PrC skill prerequisites, but I'm not worried about that.

The only abuse I could see is about perform for bards, but IMC we house ruled that the bardic abilities were limited by bards levels
and perform ranks.

Chacal


P.S: maybe you should change the thread subject to [to be moved] Expert class variants to catch the eye of a moderator.

 

[Conaill]

Re: Expert class variants

- Skill points: 8+int/level
- An expert must choose three skills, (related to the same buisness) and in these skills he can bypass the max skill rank by a number of points equals to 2+level/4. These are his "main skills"

I would be cautious about bypassing max ranks. Instead, I would give Experts a +1 "expert bonus" to any one class skill at each level. Stacks with any other bonuses (such as Skill Focus), and with other expert bonuses up to +5. And since this adds to skill levels (worth way more than one skill point), I would stick with 6+int/lvl skill points.

- Also he gets free feats at lvl 1, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 that can be used to skill-related feats like skill focus & other +2/+2 combo feats.
- At level 7 he can choose another class skill to become main skill
- At level 10 he gets Skill Mastery (as rogue) in his main skills

Another feat that could be chosen at is to turn any non-restricted skill into an always-class skill (similar to Cosmopolitan, minus the extra +2 that one grants). Really useful for a multiclassed Expert/XXX PC (although it may somewhat remove the need to take further Expert levels).

Oh, and I wouldn't give an extra feat at 1st level. Having played an Expert PC, the ability to choose your class skills is really nice at 1st level. You just need some reason to continue in the class. Maybe an extra feat at 5,10,15,20 like the Wizard? Or perhaps 3,6,9,etc. ?

Also, in my campaign I have the rule that NPC classes do not count for multiclassing XP penality.

Definitely agreed.

 

[gpetruc]

Answering to some of the suggestions:

About the max ranks I think that this should be
correct because the expert is simply "more trained" than the others. This, for example, will allow to have synergy bonuses already at lvl 5 so that a simple NPC exp1 could be really skilled in his main crafts.

The messing up that results for the PrC is not important in my world because I don't use PrC (or at least they cannot be taken without my approval and if correctly motivated)

Maybe I'll remove the bonus feat at level 1 (to aviod the class to be too frontloaded), but for the progression i'm not sure: lvl 3,6,9 ... are the same levels you get a regular feat, and this makes that level steps much less smooth. A third level expert would be much more powerful than a 2nd level, while 1st and 2nd level would be nearly equal.
Using the wizard progression (5 - 10 - 15 - 20) would be too less feats (the class is already a way less powerful than PC classes), and giving it every 2 levels (as rogue) would be too much feats, so I tried 1 / 4levels.

I'll also check the rouge gallery for some inspiration

Thanks for the suggestions