To Fudge or not to Fudge...

[Water Bob]

As a player I don't like it when GMs fudge (in our favor or against it), so I don't fudge as a GM. I think the best approach is all dice rolls out in the open no fudging. That way everyone knows they are at least getting a fair shake.

My players definitely prefer that I roll out in the open. And, I agree that there is some excitement that comes from seeing the DM, rolling for an NPC, pull off a nifty trick or fail miserably.

In my last game session, I hand an NPC that had been getting the better of the PCs the game session before. When we picked up last game, the players came to the table prepared and ready to get this guy. I was hoping to turn the NPC into a recurring villian, but I didn't fudge it. And, the players did a good job with their plan. I reward good plans and good thinking, so they ended up getting the guy.

Not without effort though. The NPC almost got away. He grabbed a vine and swung, Tarzan like, to another limb of these giant trees--where all the action was taking place. The task to make swing was a DC 12 Tumble check. The NPC had no ranks in tumble and only a +1 for his DEX (a 3.5 based game).

I rolled this out in the open---and got a 17!

It was a pretty cool moment as this NPC almost got away. Rolling the dice out in front of the group was exciting.






But, there's another side to rolling the dice out in front the boys. And, it's a side I don't like at all.

First off, rolling dice in front of players gives the players too much information that they shouldn't have. Take the toss I describe above. They knew the DC of the Tumble check, and even if I don't tell them (didn't need to with a 17 throw), the players aren't dumb and can narrow down the stats and bonuses of an NPC after seeing a couple of throws.

But, that's not the biggest thing that irks me about rolling out in the open. I don't want the players focussed on dice throws. I don't want them playing a game. I want them hanging on my every word of description watching the events unfold in their heads.

I don't want them to see a low attack number and automatically think, "OK, my guy isn't hit."

I want them to see me roll behind the screen, not knowing anything about the toss, then hear how the bugbear in front of them narrowly missed swinging at them with this big, iron spiked club.

It's just more dramatic.





So, I've got a quandary....to roll or not to roll out in the open.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I used to roll behind thw screen and just find rolling in the open works best for me now. No one worries about fudging. Everyone can see you are being fair

 

[delericho]

Since 3e was published, I have never once rolled more than a '1' when rolling hit points for a PC I'm running (in any d20 system, so including things like Star Wars). I'll try really hard to convince the DM to adopt a "fixed hit points per level" house rule. But if that fails, then yeah, I'll cheat.

(And it long ago passed the point where there was any notion of 'fun' in playing such a fragile character. Trust me.)

That's the only die roll I'll cheat on as a player.

As DM, I try really hard not to fudge dice rolls, either for or against the players. Very occasionally, I find that I've screwed up on encounter design, and that things are way tougher than they should have been - on such occasions, I will indeed hold back if the alternative is a TPK. (If the encounter is too easy, I shrug and move on - I can always get more monsters.) Otherwise, I let the dice decide.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

So? Sometimes you can't catch up to the fastball and you strike out. Fortunately, the game doesn't end there. Besides, if the fight is too tough? Run away and come back another day. In the event that's not possible, there are always more characters to play.

Guess I'm going with the long answer here. Yes, if the fight is too tough the players should be given an out by being able to run away. What I meant was that if it was my fault that they are getting their arses kicked hardcore by a flumph and are TPK'd by it or are kicking the arse of a BBEG I wanted to be a real challenge for, that's when I may want to fudge some rolls.

Of course there are other characters to play and the world goes on with the mantle of heroes to be picked up by the next group, but I don't want the reason that this happens because of human error on my part and my bad planning.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Since 3e was published, I have never once rolled more than a '1' when rolling hit points for a PC I'm running (in any d20 system, so including things like Star Wars). I'll try really hard to convince the DM to adopt a "fixed hit points per level" house rule. But if that fails, then yeah, I'll cheat.

(And it long ago passed the point where there was any notion of 'fun' in playing such a fragile character. Trust me.)

That's the only die roll I'll cheat on as a player.

That's great, I hadn't thought of that being brought up while "fudging," but that is definitely fudging with the level progression and hit points. I absolutely hate rolling a 1 on my hit points too at a player!

Brings up another fudging topic, do we - as players - fudge on character creation? How honest are we going to be with this one? I've done it in the past.

As DM, I try really hard not to fudge dice rolls, either for or against the players. Very occasionally, I find that I've screwed up on encounter design, and that things are way tougher than they should have been - on such occasions, I will indeed hold back if the alternative is a TPK. (If the encounter is too easy, I shrug and move on - I can always get more monsters.) Otherwise, I let the dice decide.

See I won't normally fudge the dice rolls here, especially if I'm rolling out in the open, but I may fudge the hit points a bit because the players don't know how many hit points the NPC has, especially if they are getting their butts handed to them and are dire threat of a TPK. It will sometimes make for a very cinematic outcome when they are down a couple of PCs and the others are in single digit hit points and suddenly the NPC gets hit and drops dead. They didn't know how many he had to begin with or that the last hit would drop him did they? They all celebrate and you can smile and congratulate them on a job well done while they try to get bring their companions back to life or heal them up.

 

[kitsune9]

When I DM'ed with a screen, I used to fudge die rolls to get the story moving along in the direction I liked, but the screen kept getting in the way on the table and I got heavily involved with the RPGA which the judges there didn't use screens. All the die rolls were out in the open and the dice fell where they may.

So now I don't fudge at all and let the dice tell the story.

 

[Water Bob]

I used to roll behind thw screen and just find rolling in the open works best for me now. No one worries about fudging. Everyone can see you are being fair

What does it matter if you fudge or not fudge, though? You're the DM. You control all elements of the game world.

If you see the PCs are getting their butts handed to them and you back off on the number of enemies that they are supposed to fight--2 show up instead of 6--isn't that fudging?

Or, if the PCs are bored because they've chewed up everything you've thrown at them, so you increase the number of enemies that you throw at them the next encounter--isn't that fudging?

Or, it's late in the game session, but you've got about two hours to go, and you've got to ad-lib a section because of the players' moves or that you ran out of things you had planned. So, you make up some stuff and run with it.

Isn't that fudging?



And, really, isn't fudging just good game management on the DM's part?

Isn't it kind of silly to accuse the DM of fudging when he arbitrarily controls the entire game universe?

 

[Water Bob]

Since 3e was published, I have never once rolled more than a '1' when rolling hit points for a PC I'm running (in any d20 system, so including things like Star Wars). I'll try really hard to convince the DM to adopt a "fixed hit points per level" house rule. But if that fails, then yeah, I'll cheat.

If I ever found a player in one of my games doing that, I'd kick 'em out of the game so fast that they wouldn't know which way to look.

Just because the DM didn't do things the way you liked it, you decide to cheat?

Man, that would burn me up to no end, catching a player acting that way.



EDIT: Just last game session, two of the PCs graduated from 1st to 2nd level. One--the one who really needed it--only rolled 2 hp on a d10 with no CON bonus (3.5 based game). The other rolled a 4 on a d10 but had +3 for CON. Dem's the way the bones fall, in my game. They get what they get. No re-throws.

 

[delericho]

Brings up another fudging topic, do we - as players - fudge on character creation? How honest are we going to be with this one? I've done it in the past.

I haven't. My preference is definitely for point-buy, but I'll accept rolling if the DM insists.

I haven't had any experiences of rolling truly sucky characters. (The worst have been instances where one player rolled okay and another rolled significantly better stats. It's not great, but I can live with that.) 3e at least built-in sufficient protection against truly bad characters, IMO, rendering cheating unnecessary.

See I won't normally fudge the dice rolls here, especially if I'm rolling out in the open, but I may fudge the hit points a bit because the players don't know how many hit points the NPC has, especially if they are getting their butts handed to them and are dire threat of a TPK.

IMO, it doesn't really make any difference whether you fudge the rolls or fudge the stats - you're fudging either way.

In these circumstances I'll avoid fudging things so the PCs win the fight. At best, they'll get away unscathed; ideally, they'll get away at some measure of cost. (And in any case, I'll only fudge when I've screwed up the encounter difficulty. If they take on more than they can handle, they're out of luck!)

 

[delericho]

Just because the DM didn't do things the way you liked it, you decide to cheat?

No, more than a decade of never rolling more than a '1' does that. Playing the character with a glass jaw was fun once. Playing that same character over and over again, not so much.