To Mike Mearls: Melee training and the Battlemind

[UngeheuerLich]

Hey, most surely prediction...

i meant... sherlocks tricks...

sherlock holms:
martial striker

abilities:
-predicting strikes: you may use int instead of strength for base attacks
-hunters quarry
-sherlocks tricks

planned strikes:
move action:
shift 2 squares, until the end of your turn, and deal wisdom modifier extra damage on a hit.

simple class design. Lets call it essential.

Why is it better than:

at-will power: predicting strike: int vs AC, [w] + int + wis damage?

if you feel like building a fighter/sherlock, you could go strength and wisdom and still use those abilities. Also a very viable character. Still perceptive, but uses raw strength. You are much more flexible in character design.
And the Warlord likes you and you can also charge!

 

[Garthanos]

Hey, most surely prediction...

i meant... sherlocks tricks...

well yeah they are sherlocks tricks if he can apply the melee training attribute so they become predictive....without being nerfed to death.

sherlock holms:
martial striker

abilities:
-predicting strikes: you may use int instead of strength for base attacks
-hunters quarry
-sherlocks tricks

planned strikes:
move action:
shift 2 squares, until the end of your turn, and deal wisdom modifier extra damage on a hit.

simple class design. Lets call it essential.

nice design.

Why is it better than:

at-will power: predicting strike: int vs AC, [w] + int + wis damage?

Not sure the latter may be concise....but it will have its own flavor predefined .... and the feat method kind of overwhelms and calls for a reflavoring of the core class - atleast in the essentials mode (this can be cool it doesnt have to be scarey)

Instead of one versatile feat applied that is interpretable by the end users (OK I am going to admit a lot of people don't seem to be doing this as well as they could/should - did the books give any examples to lead them to it? or I would assert is melee training under explained.)

- So we have to have a different element brought forward for every use case. And yes I do kind of like the idea of pre-flavored alternatives like my bard listening to the war song.

Hmmm it occurs to me that one could interpret this as catering to those who dont get refluffing too. (melee training lacks fluff in comparison to the more specific abilities.)

Yes by having differing element one has it "more under control"... the only reason it seems to need to be under control or nerfed in a generic sense is these new classes (if it isnt really a nerf it isnt enough to stop the DEX slayer being the default option so that is a bad argument which seems to fight itself).

I think I am convinced ;p... hurry hit me with some cold water I must not have had enough sleep.

 

[Mengu]

I just want to say, while he gets a lot of credit, it's not just the Warlord who grants attacks. Shamans, Ardents, Bards, Runepriests, Clerics, and even Barbarians and Rogues can grant basic atacks, not to mention a plethora of racial powers, items, feats, and paragon paths that grant basic attacks.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Only works on the sword route already mentioned a staff based war wizard? It doesnt address the general issue.

Um... Intelligent Blademaster replaces Str with Int for all Basic Attacks, I think. That's why swordmages carry javelins. So yes, it will work with a staff.

Melee Training even post-nerf makes everyone competent in fast rolling melees. If you want to be outstanding then pick a close combat class.

(And if there was ever a case for a Martial Controller, I'm pretty sure Holmes would be it.)

 

[Charwoman Gene]

== In fact I dislike that change in itself - it implies all the martial classes arent thinking or planning or it implies a fundamental change in the meaning of basic attacks.

Once you use the word "implies" you are thinking too hard about a game about pretending to be an elf.

(It's a basic attack... All the way... What does it mean?)

 

[Garthanos]

Melee Training even post-nerf makes everyone competent in fast rolling melees. If you want to be outstanding then pick a close combat class.

No there are now 4 categories...

Really lame.
lame
competant
and good

They have inserted a category... it used to be possible by way of a feat to go from really lame to competent... so we have a bunch of avengers etc who now are competent being lamed by the nerf... now they cant until they get special treatment to fix the lameness. Good is why the barbarian and essentials classes are what the warlord hits his enemies with by preference...

 

[Garthanos]

Once you use the word "implies" you are thinking too hard about a game about pretending to be an elf.

(It's a basic attack... All the way... What does it mean?)

The person I was talking too thought that sherlocks moves werent basic attacks because they felt fancy or pre-planned.... see? opportunity attacks and simplicity.. were a defining element of what made it basic for that person. That cant be assumed as its now too easy for anything to be a basic attack the definition really has changed.. before very few things would/could be interpretted as basic attacks most were at-wills, encounters dailies etc.

Telling me I think too much will indeed just annoy me.

 

[Garthanos]

Um... Intelligent Blademaster replaces Str with Int for all Basic Attacks, I think. That's why swordmages carry javelins. So yes, it will work with a staff.

Will work with staff - the javelin sounds abusive.

 

[Ahrimon]

While we're at it, we should ask for a feat so that primary melee characters can attack from 10 squares away. Since the non-melee want to be just as good as the melee in a BASIC fight, then the melee guys should be able attack at just as good as the non-melee guys with only a single feat right?

I mean, everyone should be equal regardless of what stats you use after only taking a single feat. Right?

Or people can just accept that some characters are better at one role than another.

Note: I'll remain open for fixes to the battlemind, since I don't have phb3 and don't actually know how they work.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

While we're at it, we should ask for a feat so that primary melee characters can attack from 10 squares away. Since the non-melee want to be just as good as the melee in a BASIC fight, then the melee guys should be able attack at just as good as the non-melee guys with only a single feat right?

I mean, everyone should be equal regardless of what stats you use after only taking a single feat. Right?

Or people can just accept that some characters are better at one role than another.

Note: I'll remain open for fixes to the battlemind, since I don't have phb3 and don't actually know how they work.

Yes, ranged training would be only fair...

(but strength characters can already use a Javelin)