To Sail the Sunless Sea

[The Human Target]

I actually have a question.

Are there any supplement books that have anything on Underdark Oceans, be they Forgotten realms or Greyhawk or what have you?

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

I'm currently running a swashbuckling type game, and this is a great idea! We just finished our story arc, and I've been looking for an angle for the next one.

Now I have a reason to buy Drow of Underdark! Woot!

The image below is "Green Towers", which became the cover of a Yes album. Imagine making port here while sailing the Sunless Sea.

 

[phindar]

Seafarer's Handbook (I believe) had a terrifyingly neato monster called the Abyssal Shark. That would be a sweet encounter for an underdark sea. Perhaps there's a portal to the Abyss somewhere down there.

And a great albino Kraken would probably be a good fit too. You need a good apex predator to scare the bejesus out of people.

My reference points to sunless seas are Kubla Khan and the some of the Narnia stuff, and neither was long on details. How high up is the ceiling in these caverns? Because with flying creatures, the roof of the cavern is going to be fairly accessible. Reaching a certain port just might entail dropping anchor and Levitating your cargo straight up. Likewise, predators might lurk on the roof and levitate deckhands up to them for snacking purposes. Or they might Stone Shape, Rock to Mud, or Earthquake sections of the cavern roof to fall on enemy ships, particularly if they have kuo-toa allies who can pick the wreckage clean.

The lack of wood for shipbuilding probably isn't a big deal. You can introduce a type of fungus that has similar properties to wood, perhaps after its been magically or alchemically treated. Stone and metal boats are a good idea too.

In FR, I think the underdark oceans link up to the real oceans. All I really remember was Skullport was under Waterdeep and from Skullport you could sail deeper into the underdark. I'll leave it to people who know more about FR than I do (which is just abut anyone) to explain further. Anyway, always liked Skullport.

Don't vampires have to stay in their coffins when aboard ships?

 

[JonMonster]

If you do decide to make the sea large enough for wind, give some thought to where the air comes from and where it goes. This being fantasy I suppose you could change things up as much as you want and hand wave the explanation, but you'd get a lot more versimilitude if you pick a fairly consistent wind pattern and stick with it. Say that winds range from dead calm to stiff breeze and vary from the south east to the southwest. You can use this to help you create a heirarchy on the sea and some conflicts. Is it better to be upwind or downwind?

I'd also add that you can have some fun with currents as well. If the wind blows south to north and the sea current is south to north you could travel back and forth without lifting a finger. In one direction you've got the wind, in the other the current.

If there is a slow but steady drain in the center of the sea you might wind up having a clockwise current that would take a drifting boat all the way round the shore. This would generate an intereting possibility for trade with some folks making the continuous circuit and others cutting across to beat out the competition.

In the more fantastic realm, I love the idea of sailing through a forest of stalagmites that rise up out of the water. Make the tops the nesting grounds for gargoyles or other avian beasties for even more fun.

 

[howandwhy99]

From a geological standpoint, this is pretty interesting.

First, is the sea connected to a larger ocean-like water table? Perhaps add vortices where the water washes into a lower area.

Second, how does the water collect? Underground rivers and streams pool because of elevation. I'm thinking most enter by waterfall and not from the edges, but instead from high above into the sea.

Next, landmasses and islands are unlikely to be weathered down. I'd say they are spire-like and perhaps even columns.

Weather itself is unusual as there aren't really underground winds (unless you add wind tunnels). However, lots of temperature changes and water vapor do exist, so I'd add in areas where steam might be created. Lava pouring in an area would create pressure and then winds. Precipitation is probably thick fog at times and rain via stalactites above. Depending on the barometric pressure this water vapor could be above the water line (rain), at the surface (fog), or just dry. Cold and ice would be unlikely.

Life in the sea starts with plants. Perhaps luminescent algae could be how people see? Where there is earth instead of just stone, large fields of fungi would grow as they don't need light. You could play with the effects of eating them. Moss grows on fungi too, so it's possible. Plus any other ooze you'd like.

Insects - are the real progenitor animals. I imagine glowbugs and lightning bugs would be pretty fun as swarms and at unusual sizes. Big enough boring beetles could pass through stones where wormlife could not. Worms have a tendency to just keep growing as long as they can eat, so I'd throw a few of those in too.

Animals - would start with fish and amphibians. Depending on your luminosity, you could go blind and albino or perhaps make them luminescent as well. The fun thing about deep underground is you can make things both prehistoric and completely new. Aquatic dinosaurs could exist as well as Colossal-sized Man-o-wars or floating, spiny pufferfish (that levitate like balloons and can tear through sails).

Gems and heavy metals are most of what we dig into the ground. You may want to put many of these in as ore. Costs by size and weight could be considerably lower here compared to lands above: Cortez's city of gold.

Remains and fossils are another interesting thing found in the earth. Massive bones of creatures no longer thought to exist. Truly ancient cities and tombs buried by time eons ago. These are the records of ancient history and secrets for explorers to chisel out of the rock.

Light and luminosity. This is your call on whether you want it and how much. If you have it, for some than light will be life. And death. For at least one sentient race I'd treat it as a rare gift and weapon. Light means things can see you, but you also can see. For no light settings, darkvision in 3.5 has a screwed up 60' ranged "Bubble". In the interest of making an enjoyable world and not one dictated by the rules I'd toss away building upon that type of thinking. I'd steer ships using echolocation instead. 60' is likely how fast many ships will travel each round. That's just too dangerous.

Sentient creatures are probably something you've already thought about. The D1-3 series has dark elves and kuo-toa. You might want to include new non-MM races too like ones based on insects, worms, oozes, and other smaller life forms. A luminous race could be fun. Xorns are really alien.

A typical D&D campaign would have above ground race PCs as outsiders. I don't know your intentions here but you could have natives too. One thing to note are above races as underground dwellers. Men could be like cavemen or perhaps something "all too human". This lends a sort of horror to the roots of other humanoid races like Kuo-toa and how they came to be. Another idea is a race that is in ascendancy. Maybe a strong community-based race like insects see themselves as the inheritors of the Overbright after the decline of The Age of Man?

Culture and Belief of sentients (and really this means religion) would have roots in their environment. Like the sun god above maybe races worship light and/or darkness? With darkvision only B&W colors take on a new meaning of revelation. With all that fungi foodstuffs psychedelics effects might not only affect religious ceremonies but entire psychologies of races. Myths of an infinite "emptiness" far above might exist. Gems that sparkle as jewelry on glowing sentients could be a source of beauty, status, and even magic items. What I'd keep in mind is that wild and dangerous places typically have cultures to fit them.

For Piracy I'm not sure what you may mean. Pirates normally are lawbreakers, so you may want to think about what laws they are breaking. Maybe all creatures battle over what resources exist and they aren't by definition pirates? This has more to do with your answers than my questions.

Also, regarding cosmology, is the land a planet? Planets tend to be a rather modern belief and don't need to be true in fantasy worlds. So what is below the Sunless Sea? Perhaps goliath-sized tortoises live at the bottom who are sentient and a First Race? This fits with the Thales' philosophy of "What does the Earth rest upon?" Perhaps their pattern of surfacing is how other inhabitants keep time? (instead of our years)

Technologically you may to think about how basic building practices differ. It is not "building", it is excavating. Old living quarters would not be torn down. The people just moved. In fact, many places were probably built by other races in other times and are now used for alternate purposes. In terms of equipment, materials are going to differ without trees and leaves. Most things are still the same though, just advanced through a different cultural history. For tech levels I would stay very far away from using magic as a reliable technology. High magic is equivalent to high tech, so I'd use it only for really big, important things and leave it out of the common masses' hands. This is a judgment call. My warning is to not rely on explaining common living practices with magic lest it also become common. (force ropes, conjured clothes, grooming spell combs, and such stuff)

Of course, you can always page through the monster books, spell compendium, magic item compendium, arms & equipment guide, and whatever else is out there.

 

[Archon of Light]

Wow. Ok, I haven't had an idea appeal to me so strongly as this one has in a long, long time. I feel like grabbing it up and running away with it!

But I think I'll just post something, instead.

This simple idea has the all the potential to become something completely and uniquely different if done right. It has all the right elements that are both familiar and appealing to many of us who share an adventurous heart, as well as a creative mind. But the small twist is so compelling and imaginative, yet not unfamiliar, that it should be its own setting. I feel that it should not be treated as an alternate landscape to your 'typical' fantasy world. This needs to be something more focused and original with a bigger picture. Like this:

"The surface world no longer exists. The fiery cataclysm came from the skies without warning. The Final Reckoning, as it was later called, marked the end of almost all life on the planet... except for those who were unfortunate enough to survive and find their way deeper inside the burnt shell of the world.

Deep within the world's core, the races from above found their way to settle near large underground seas. They are the last remaining sources of fresh water to support what life still exists. Covering just a few thousand square miles, these vast caverns are now home for the small remnants of an entire planet. It is an alien world unknown to many, and home to many frightening and powerful creatures who have adapted and survived in the darker places for centuries untold. For the races of men, adaptation in a cold and lightless world are all that stands between any hope for survival and complete extinction."

My advice is just not to treat this like a revamped cliche' of everything familiar all over again. Think outside the box! Forget about how to apply all the standard races and monsters.

For example, assume there were no such things as dark elves before this. The elves that survived faced total annihilation because their spiritual ties to the lands were severed. Many simply mourned the death of their world, and lost their will to live. The elves as a race would've died out completely if not for the attention of a demonic corruptor and led them deep into the earth where they became tainted and dark. They lost touch with their sylvan ways and became something twisted and evil.

Gnomes and halflings never had a chance, but the dwarves flourished in the underground realms. It soon became clear to the human races who was more dependent upon whom and the dwarves also became aware of it, too. Before long, humans became second-class citizens and resented the authority of their dwarf leaders. In the end, it was decided that those who would not abide by dwarven standards would have to survive on their own outside the citadels of the Dwarf Lords.

Of all the races that descended, however, the orcs made the most surprising and unanticipated change. With the elves gone and their numbers vastly diminished, the orcs knew better than any other race that there is always strength in numbers. It is under such unique circumstances that humans and orcs came to depend on each other and meshed their cultures into something new. Orcs became the protectors of their human counterparts, and the humans did their best to take as much of the 'orc' out of the orcs. They even went so far as to rename their kind as 'Olgren'.

I think I could probably just go on like this... hmm, and I just might have to!

 

[Ry]

Neogi merchant privateers with Chuul deckhands. Great because they don't mind dealing with anybody, but they fit the dark/evil location. Heck, they could even pick up the players in a tight spot, and then ask for a "favor" instead of enslaving them (just because they're evil doesn't mean they don't recognize an opportunity).

Due to my current problems accessing EN World I am unable to post a link, but it's showthread 192889

 

[diaglo]

since much of the underdark relies on tunnels i'm gonna say a means to travel above and below water is essential for any ship.

aquatic umber hulks. aquatic trolls. aquatic hobgoblins. vampiric manta rays... Xican'tspellthem. aquatic giants (evil storm giants)

kelpie beds. tended/guarded by giant crayfish. maybe a giant version of a clam or oyster thrown in.

aboleths instead of mind flayers.

kraken or two.

 

[Goldmoon]

Giand Zombie squid attached to the hulls of ships for propulsion.

 

[Imruphel]

Any more ideas?