To Sneak Attack, or not to Sneak Attack that is the question...

[Imret]

Hasn't come up here yet, so I say it: Nobody forces you to do sneak attacks. Just like noone forces a fighter to use heavy armor and a tower shield. We don't stereotype fighters as users of longsword/fullplate/tower shield, so we shouldn't stereotype rogues as sneak attackers. If they don't want to use it, they just don't. It's still a great class, what with all those skill points and the defensive capability.

I think the big issue here is covered in Darkness' post above...UA suggests you could trade it for fighter bonus feats, arguably THE feature of the fighter class. Yes, they get bigger hit dice and whatnot, but...feats are really the "money" feature. I'm not sure that voluntarily crippling one's character without any kind of compensation is an attractive option for most players, unless combat is rare at best in your campaign or you want to be less effective in combat.

No, we don't stereotype fighters as plate & sword fighters, because there are lots of fighter feats that apply in other ways; mounted combat, archery, beating the tar out of someone with whatever's within reach, or even just tanking. But they still use the feats. To put it another way (now, again, my books are very, very far away from me, so apologies if this argument no longer holds water), play a fighter who spends all his feats on Skill Focus for his class skills. Not exactly the "fighter" any more, is he?

Similarly, the Forsaker PrC jumps to mind. If just not using magic items weren't that big a deal, they wouldn't give you something back for the sacrifice. If you're going to abandon the class ability WotC seems to feel is equal to the primary feature of the fighter class, then you should probably get something back.

But, hey, YMMV.

Footnote: The "we're not thieves any more, really" was mine. It's just a phrase for fun. They could call them "Oogats" and they'd still have 8 skill points, sneak attack, and evasion.

 

[Arkhandus]

I think a fair way to deal with this little conundrum would be to either offer a PC-worthy version of the Expert class (call it the Professional, Master, or something), or offer an alternative to Sneak Attack for Rogues. For reference, I consider each d6 of Sneak Attack damage to be worth a feat or so in power, more or less.

The Expert class could probably be PC-worthy by adding a bonus feat at each level that a Fighter would get a bonus feat, but making their bonus feat selection be any General feats they qualify for. Give them an extra 4 skill points per level, and there you go. More versatile and skill-oriented than a Rogue, but lacking all of the Rogue's combat-oriented special abilities. Make the Rogue's Trapseeking ability available as a General feat, with prerequisites of Expert level 1+, Disable Device 1+ ranks, and Search 1+ ranks. Bam! There you go, an Expert variant that's more or less equal to the Rogue in power and versatility, with less combat emphasis and more of a focus on skills and feats.

If modifying the Rogue, simply allow the Rogue to choose at 1st-level a skill-oriented path rather than a combat-oriented path, which swaps out each Sneak Attack damage die with a bonus Skill Focus feat, and maybe if that seems a bit too weak, also give them 1 bonus hit point each time they would have otherwise gained a Sneak Attack damage die. Or perhaps allow the Rogue to choose between S.A. and S.F. at each level that they would get a Sneak Attack damage die?

 

[Storyteller01]

And let's not forget the Iaijutsu skill. By the time you level out an Iaijutsu Master, he's sneak attacking targets without the need to hide...

Speaking of which, I had actually been thinking along the opposite lines IMC. Couldn't figure out why snipers had to get within 30 feet to gain the excess damage of the sneak attack, or why someone wanting to play a sniper type had to play a social character with an average BaB.

We house ruled that the Iaijutsu skill can also be taken as Sniper Focus (with a similar mechanic, since you lose Dex when you aim). Since this isn't a class skill, you'd need to take a feat a first level to make it so (or else what's the point?). You can use the sneak attack within 30 feet, and sniper focus beyond that.

Hasn't ruined the game, since the damage still has a random element, and the rangers are a little more deadlier for it. The cost of the feat makes this unattractive to those who don't use this tactic. Those who purchase the skill at the cross-class rate just can't do the neccesary damage.

So... yes, it can be made into a skill