To use "buff spells" or not to use "buff spells"? That is the question.

[CRG]

We use "protections" more than "buffs" in general. If you want to call them "buffs" then we use them alot.

 

[Numion]

We use "protections" more than "buffs" in general. If you want to call them "buffs" then we use them alot.

I haven't made such a distinction between spells. In my group the spells are classed by their durations. They have divided their spells into "Hours" (1 hour / level) and "Tens" (10 minutes / level). During play they'll just announce "Hours on" or "Tens on". That means that the player in question has cast all his "Hour" spells or "Tens" spells.

Yeah, it's a bit metagamey, but speeds up play.

BTW, the cleric I wrote earlier bout is thinking of popping a Miracle to polymorph into a Stone Giant. Isn't that kind of a mis-use of Miracle? He's been using Miracles for mundane things like teleporting too.

 

[kenjib]

All that would happen is that people just cast the same spells as they always did, but now they have to do even more metagaming to work around the unwanted frills.

Boring players result in a boring game. Long-winded spell descriptions with lots of side-effects won't make boring players more interesting.

Perhaps some people would like those "unwanted" frills as it adds to the atmosphere and provides an opportunity to enhance roleplay. I understand that it's not your thing but it is something that I would like to see myself.

I do agree that it wouldn't be best for the core rules (which it isn't of course), as I think more people would agree with you than not, however this is why I, myself, find some of these spells to be quite boring and uninspiring. That's what the poll is about -- do you like to use these spells or not. I don't and that's why.

I agree that it wouldn't make boring players more interesting, but I'm not suggesting these rules for boring meta-game players (and I'm not implying that you are one of course -- just responding to your comment).

 

[Tharkun]

We don't use the "buff" spells as the fights are over before we get a chance to use them usually! And we're all high level too (15+). Though I admit it would be nice to have them now that we are fighting dragons and Type "butch" demons

 

[Zog]

Cast your extended hour long buff spells at night. At level 12+ - they'll be up all day. Memorize something useful for the problems of the day.

Thats the great advantage of buffs at high level and of the Persistant feat from FR, which makes those 'tens' or even 'rounds' last all day. Just do it the night before. If trouble happens in the night, well, you are all buffed up. If nothing happens, regain all spells in the morning, only fill those high level slots with useful things.

 

[ashockney]

Buffiness

This is one of the biggest challenges of DM'ing at higher levels (12th+) is that you must contend with VERY powerful characters who are all made far MORE powerful by the complement of spells they have up during adventures. Even your targeted Dispel Magics will only take down a handful of spells, and AOE dispels can just get one per person. In my experience, the effort as a DM was in taking the time to figure out what "buffing" all the creatures, villians, and NPC's accordingly to compensate and compete with a party of high level adventurers. Monte Cook's high level adventure, Demon God's Fane, is one of the few good high-level adventures that really takes the time to think out all the buffing that would be necessary, and INCLUDES all the buffed up stats. Whew! Look at the differences people talk about to their characters, and these are their lists of ALL DAY buffs, I'm sure it gets much worse (as it does for my players) when you throw in the list of "big combat" buffs like Divine Power, Righteous Might, Divine Favor, Holy Aura, etc. that only last 1 or 2 rds/level. Whew!

 

[ashockney]

Buffiness

This is one of the biggest challenges of DM'ing at higher levels (12th+) is that you must contend with VERY powerful characters who are all made far MORE powerful by the complement of spells they have up during adventures. Even your targeted Dispel Magics will only take down a handful of spells, and AOE dispels can just get one per person. In my experience, the effort as a DM was in taking the time to figure out what "buffing" all the creatures, villians, and NPC's accordingly to compensate and compete with a party of high level adventurers. Monte Cook's high level adventure, Demon God's Fane, is one of the few good high-level adventures that really takes the time to think out all the buffing that would be necessary, and INCLUDES all the buffed up stats. Whew! Look at the differences people talk about to their characters, and these are their lists of ALL DAY buffs, I'm sure it gets much worse (as it does for my players) when you throw in the list of "big combat" buffs like Divine Power, Righteous Might, Divine Favor, Holy Aura, etc. that only last 1 or 2 rds/level. Whew!

 

[ForceUser]

Buff spells are part of the game, and in some fights they mean the difference between winning and losing. If my party has time to prepare and/or knows what they are about to face, you better believe they are going to buff up!

Case in point: tonight, our 13th-14th level group is going to assault a large hive of formians. We've researched the formians, we know what they're capable of. You better believe we're going in there with extended versions of protection from law and protection from evil, because that will make the difference between our fighters fighting for us for fighting for THEM (formians can dominate). On top of the protections, we'll also probably have the usual rounds of endurance, cat's grace, bull's strength, protection from elements, etc. It's just smart tactics.

 

[James McMurray]

Why are you using protection from evil against Formians (they're LN)?

 

[Reno]

Cast your extended hour long buff spells at night. At level 12+ - they'll be up all day. Memorize something useful for the problems of the day.

And how do you propose to cast your buffing spells at night? If all your slots are spent up on 'something more usefull' your buffs wont be there when you go to cast them at night.