ToEE, Scourge of the Slavelords, and Queen of Spiders

[diaglo]

I don't remember any Lolth/drow connection in the ToEE. Where was this connection?

In T1. Lareth . part of the reason Gary didn't want to do Q1 and left it to Dave Sutherland. T2 and Q1 with the drow meshing and the Elder Elemental gods and similar other things made things too alike.

The supermodule connections were weak, contrived, lame, and stupid.

Quasqueton

completely agree. but i played and adapted them before the compilations.

and as mentioned it does take some work, but not any more so than you would for any other published module adaptation to your particular campaign

 

[Quasqueton]

Still don't remember a mention of Lolth or drow with regard to Lareth the Beautiful. I'll have to look it up when I get home, unless someone can post the text before then.

completely agree.

Perhaps the only thing you and I can agree on?

Quasqueton

 

[Qlippoth]

Still don't remember a mention of Lolth or drow with regard to Lareth the Beautiful. I'll have to look it up when I get home, unless someone can post the text before then.

Ahem.

...Lareth the Beautiful is the dark hope of chaotic evil: young, handsome, well endowed in abilities and aptitudes, thoroughly wicked, depraved, and capricious. Whomever harms Lareth had better not brag of it in the presence of the Demoness Lolth!..."

from T1: The Village of Hommlet

 

[naturaltwenty]

Last three issues of Dungeon mag

The last three issues of Dungeon Magazine are a continuation of the Giants Saga or at least have a tie-in (summarized below).

If you are going to convert I would suggest lowering the Giants series CR. The suggested character levels do not match anywhere near what the beefed up giants can now dole out.

Issue 117 has a primer for the City of Istivin and the first adventure in the series:

Istivin: City of Shadows
by Greg A. Vaughan & Erik Mona
In the shadows of the great western mountains lies a tragic kingdom wracked by the desolation of war and poisoned by the opportunistic crush of would-be nobles holding false claims on ravaged lands. At the heart of this kingdom is star-crossed Istivin, a city haunted by demonic pacts, devious dark elves, and worse. A complete Backdrop of urban dark fantasy for all D&D campaigns.

Touch of the Abyss (Part 1)
by Greg A. Vaughan
A decade ago, the drow goddess Lolth captured the city of Istivin in her world-spanning Demonweb. Adventurers eventually won the day, but the affair left a dark stain on the city’s soul that now sputters to terrible life. A D&D adventure for 11th-level characters.

Issue 118 continues the story arc:

Shadow of the Abyss
by Greg A. Vaughan
On the trail of Ilkharis, frost giant cleric of Kostchtchie and pawn of the Malgoth, the PCs venture out of Istivin to a mountain border fort inhabited by giants and a nasty blue dragon. Part Two of the Istivin: City of Shadows campaign arc. A D&D adventure for 11th-level characters.

and issue 119 has the final part of the trilogy:

Wrath of the Abyss
by Greg A. Vaughan
A new conspiracy against shadow-haunted Istivin has been laid bare! The drow have returned to the beleaguered city, and worse, they have captured the only living creature who possibly knows how to destroy the parasitic Abyssal entity that taints its alleys and foundations. What ties do these dark elves have to the notorious Vault of the Drow? And what exactly is the creature that haunts the city above? Find out in the exciting conclusion to the Istivin: City of Shadows campaign arc! A D&D adventure for 12th-level characters.

Later,

Greg Volz
Natural Twenty Gaming
www.naturaltwenty.com

 

[billd91]

Originally, in their AD&D forms, the ToEE took the PCs from 1st to 8th level. The Slavelords series was for levels 4-7. The Giants series was for levels 8-12. The Drow series was 10-14.

The supermodule form of the Slavelords series has the PCs called by a lord/lady of the area to undertake a special mission by ship to a far location. On this trip, they get captured by slavers (with no chance to avoid this capture), stripped of all their gear (especially sentimental items which would be thrown overboard, forever lost), and eventually dumped into the first original adventure with scrounged gear and equipment rather than their own personal stuff. And to top it off, paladins and other "duty bound" characters are penalized for failing to finish the original mission they were called on to do (before getting captured), even though the module forces the series of events to transpire regardless of the PCs' actions. This is absolute crap.

The original Slavelord series had the PCs hired by a confederation of local lords to go after the slavers commando style. The lords gave the PCs the location of the first adventure, and were willing to support the PCs between forays against the enemy.

Which one do you think most Players would enjoy? Auto capture and robbing, or hired heroes?

<snip>

The supermodule connections were weak, contrived, lame, and stupid.

Quasqueton

Well... you're remembering some of Scourge incorrectly. Yes, the PCs are asked to go on a special mission for a local dame, but she gets captured immediately afterwards while off screen and THAT is what sparks the adventure against the slavers. There is an encounter designed to rid PCs of a substantial part of their gear from ToEE as well as make the quest even more personal and start them off with scratch equipment.
And like all published modules, if the DM thinks the challenge of the encounter is too difficult (and the challenge here is in coming up with an escape plan, executing it with the help of other slaves, and reequipping rather than hacking their way through another encounter) for the players, the DM has the right to remove the encounter.
At the end, paladins are not actually penalized for failing in the first quest if they go after the dame. Rather, it is suggested as a role-playing point that they might still feel they didn't do enough for that. It is not an imposed penalty but a good RP suggestion.
Obviously, I'm not going to change your opinion of this module, but I think other DMs interested in this (and I think Scourge is the strongest of the super module rewrites) might benefit from seeing the other side.

 

[Quasqueton]

I traded away my Scourge of the Slaverlords supermodule, but I read it thoroughly many years ago. (I still have my original 4 modules of the Slavers series.)

Well... you're remembering some of Scourge incorrectly. Yes, the PCs are asked to go on a special mission for a local dame, but she gets captured immediately afterwards while off screen and THAT is what sparks the adventure against the slavers. There is an encounter designed to rid PCs of a substantial part of their gear from ToEE as well as make the quest even more personal and start them off with scratch equipment.

Well, you're pretty much confirming what I said. I'll also point out the "ambush" with the sleep gas that the DM is told to give no save against so the PCs get captured.

And like all published modules, if the DM thinks the challenge of the encounter is too difficult (and the challenge here is in coming up with an escape plan, executing it with the help of other slaves, and reequipping rather than hacking their way through another encounter) for the players, the DM has the right to remove the encounter.

I'm not against a scenario where the PCs have to think and plan and improvise rather than "hacking their way through". My point of contention is how the PCs get put in that scenario by blatant module railroading.

At the end, paladins are not actually penalized for failing in the first quest if they go after the dame. Rather, it is suggested as a role-playing point that they might still feel they didn't do enough for that. It is not an imposed penalty but a good RP suggestion.

Is there not a game mechanic penalty given in the module? Of hand I can't remember if it is a die roll penalty or an xp penalty.

Obviously, I'm not going to change your opinion of this module, but I think other DMs interested in this (and I think Scourge is the strongest of the super module rewrites) might benefit from seeing the other side.

For the record, I really liked the Slaver series in their original 4-module form (aside from some really wonky encounters -- like a basilisk in the middle of a slaver compound).

Quasqueton

 

[jodyjohnson]

Looked through ToEE again compared to Slavers. Although Slavers has higher level NPCs it has less areas where PCs can bring the whole place down on themselves. ToEE has weaker NPCs but much higher potential for encounters to go bad.

If I was starting over and my group hadn't been through the Moathouse before I'd do:

Start in Hommlett with the Moathouse and then visit Nulb.

Then either have them captured in Nulb, steered away by Y'dey and Otis towards the Slavers, or just hooked with the starting point for Scourge (it starts in Hommlet).

If they insist on doing ToEE first then let them, have clues in ToEE that point them to the Slavers (boost key slaver levels).

If they go with Slavers first, run slavers as is (consider making the railroad optional-it doesn't really change much to avoid it), and then plant clues to point them back to ToEE (boost key encounters in ToEE).

The railroad simulated the way the open tourney went so it really isn't required. However you can still try.

From there start Queen of Spiders with the Giants. Depending on your group it'll be brutal or a cakewalk (either as easy to fix).

 

[Quasqueton]

The railroad simulated the way the open tourney went so it really isn't required. However you can still try.

Not at all. The tourney start was the same as the original campaign start - hired by a collection of Wild Coast lords to investigate and destroy the slavers. The capture-railroad at the beginning was purely a contrivance of the supermodule rewrite.

From there start Queen of Spiders with the Giants. Depending on your group it'll be brutal or a cakewalk (either as easy to fix).

I bet if you update the giant stats but keep the numbers (in the revelry) the same, the PCs would be forced to take on the Steading in the way it was originally designed - by stealth.

Quasqueton

 

[jodyjohnson]

I was referring to the second railroad which leads to A4. Not clear on that.

The whole first 1/3 of Scourge is new, but I think it's worth doing.

 

[Quasqueton]

I was referring to the second railroad which leads to A4. Not clear on that.

Oh. But the campaign version of the end of A3 at least let the PCs fight it out to the end if they so chose. And they can get their personal gear back at the end of A4. Big difference.

The whole first 1/3 of Scourge is new, but I think it's worth doing.

I thought it unnecessary and contrived. <shrug> But I'd be interested in hearing why you thought it worth doing/necessary.

And is it just me, or were the new images in the Slaverlords supermodule just atrocious?

Quasqueton