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D&D 4E Tomb of Horrors (4E version) - anyone run this yet?
- Thread starter Mercurius
- Start date
Majoru Oakheart
Adventurer
I started running it immediately following the RPGA adventure, Tomb of Horrors. We had our first session yesterday.
I decided to transition the game into the new Tomb by running through the first encounter as they were going back to town after finishing the previous adventure.
I'm then having nothing much happen to them for 6 months in order to have the first encounter actually be a foreshadow. Plus, it'll give them some roleplaying excuses for taking their Paragon Paths(they just became 11th this session) and it will make more sense in terms of the timeline of the adventure.
They certainly enjoyed the Acererak's Thrall (or whatever it's called) power on the monsters. They were baffled as to why the creatures could do that. It'll lead effectively into the adventure, I think.
I decided to transition the game into the new Tomb by running through the first encounter as they were going back to town after finishing the previous adventure.
I'm then having nothing much happen to them for 6 months in order to have the first encounter actually be a foreshadow. Plus, it'll give them some roleplaying excuses for taking their Paragon Paths(they just became 11th this session) and it will make more sense in terms of the timeline of the adventure.
They certainly enjoyed the Acererak's Thrall (or whatever it's called) power on the monsters. They were baffled as to why the creatures could do that. It'll lead effectively into the adventure, I think.
Well, level 10 is 'troll'. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want us to call you a trollYeah, TerraDave, you're keeping me from being a whatever-monster-is-next.
ArcaneSpringboard
First Post
Below I will summarize our last two sessions of Tomb of Horrors, specifically chapter 2.
Simply put, I think these last two sessions were the best ones we've had since 4e came out. It really felt old school. Traps, exploration, and the like. We probably had more ritual use in the last two sessions than the last two years combined. And it was largely because of 'empty rooms' between encounters and puzzles to be solved.
Spoilers below.
Simply put, I think these last two sessions were the best ones we've had since 4e came out. It really felt old school. Traps, exploration, and the like. We probably had more ritual use in the last two sessions than the last two years combined. And it was largely because of 'empty rooms' between encounters and puzzles to be solved.
Spoilers below.
So the PCs jumped into the Shadow Tomb after dealing with the Vestige. They were prompty attacked by the Sword Wraiths and didn't have too much trouble defeating them.
To be honest, I'm not sure they were necessary to the encounter. You could skip them and wouldn't miss the meat of the entry room, which is dealing with the Devourer and the Alcoves.
Unfortunately, there seem to be several editorial issues in this chapter. First, the footprints mentioned in the text really don't match up to the rationale to where they are. I didn't worry too much about it, and the PCs didn't really deal with them.
They did however use Hand of Fate to figure out which portals to go through. This did allow them to avoid the really nasty results, but three of the PCs went into the donkey-head portal all at once. Heh heh heh...
Another thing that wasn't clear was why the bodies in this chamber were 'beyond a Speak with Dead' since Speak with Dead doesn't have a time limit. So I allowed it, which gave the PCs the hint on how to deal with the Devourer...and I also gave them the hint about avoiding the tapestries in the next room.
This was a mistake, as they were able to destroy all the tapestries as they moved through the next room until they reached the centre when the Nighthaunts attacked. As it turned out, they never were impacted by the tapestries at all.
Another editorial issue. The text kept mentioning pit traps...which weren't on the map. So I ignored them.
Then they dealt with the chamber with the necrotic rain. They used a rope to make something akin to a zipline to the trapdoors in the center of the room. Then set off the acid trap...twice. Needless to say this messed up their rope...and vastly increased their paranoia the rest of the way.
I also wrote on a piece of paper "Please don't kill me." when they discovered that the trapdoors were false. They eventually found the hidden passage way and used some ladder ritual to get up there.
To be honest, I'm not sure they were necessary to the encounter. You could skip them and wouldn't miss the meat of the entry room, which is dealing with the Devourer and the Alcoves.
Unfortunately, there seem to be several editorial issues in this chapter. First, the footprints mentioned in the text really don't match up to the rationale to where they are. I didn't worry too much about it, and the PCs didn't really deal with them.
They did however use Hand of Fate to figure out which portals to go through. This did allow them to avoid the really nasty results, but three of the PCs went into the donkey-head portal all at once. Heh heh heh...
Another thing that wasn't clear was why the bodies in this chamber were 'beyond a Speak with Dead' since Speak with Dead doesn't have a time limit. So I allowed it, which gave the PCs the hint on how to deal with the Devourer...and I also gave them the hint about avoiding the tapestries in the next room.
This was a mistake, as they were able to destroy all the tapestries as they moved through the next room until they reached the centre when the Nighthaunts attacked. As it turned out, they never were impacted by the tapestries at all.
Another editorial issue. The text kept mentioning pit traps...which weren't on the map. So I ignored them.
Then they dealt with the chamber with the necrotic rain. They used a rope to make something akin to a zipline to the trapdoors in the center of the room. Then set off the acid trap...twice. Needless to say this messed up their rope...and vastly increased their paranoia the rest of the way.
I also wrote on a piece of paper "Please don't kill me." when they discovered that the trapdoors were false. They eventually found the hidden passage way and used some ladder ritual to get up there.
ArcaneSpringboard
First Post
Last night's session:
The PCs made their way to the 'planar rooms' but turned back before going through the arches. Originally I was glad about this because I wasn't sure about the purpose of those rooms. Turns out that they have the keys that are needed to open the final room.
They kept going north, found all the magic loot (which I'm changing but waiting for the CB to be updated next week so I can add some Rare items). They made fairly quick work of the Tormentors and Phantoms though they completely missed the thing about possibly dealing with this without fighting as much. I probably should have roleplayed the tormentors to really supply the backstory to the PCs.
As it turned out, the PCs kept being able to make their saves to fall off the bridges, except once near the end where the paladin fell over. The bones at the bottom really didn't come into it, though it still was a characterful encounter.
They did some more exploring, got paranoid with the 'trapdoors' that really weren't trapped or false, found the shadar kai (reskinned as members of the Emerald Claw), and got to the locked door.
They headed back, used Hand of Fate to figure out which arches to go through and ended the session being attacked by bodaks. I'm looking forward to that encounter. Can't wait to see the expression on their face when I say: You drop to 0 hp.
Assuming of course the PCs can get weakened. They do a have a fair bit of radiant damage.
They kept going north, found all the magic loot (which I'm changing but waiting for the CB to be updated next week so I can add some Rare items). They made fairly quick work of the Tormentors and Phantoms though they completely missed the thing about possibly dealing with this without fighting as much. I probably should have roleplayed the tormentors to really supply the backstory to the PCs.
As it turned out, the PCs kept being able to make their saves to fall off the bridges, except once near the end where the paladin fell over. The bones at the bottom really didn't come into it, though it still was a characterful encounter.
They did some more exploring, got paranoid with the 'trapdoors' that really weren't trapped or false, found the shadar kai (reskinned as members of the Emerald Claw), and got to the locked door.
They headed back, used Hand of Fate to figure out which arches to go through and ended the session being attacked by bodaks. I'm looking forward to that encounter. Can't wait to see the expression on their face when I say: You drop to 0 hp.
Assuming of course the PCs can get weakened. They do a have a fair bit of radiant damage.
Mercurius
Legend
OK, we finally finished off chapter one - it took a total of five sessions, ranging from 3-5 hours each, although there was a bit of detour in one session after two characters died and they had to go back to town for reinforcements. I'm thinking that overall the chapter could take 15-20 hours to complete, depending upon how fast you play.
Last we left off, the PCs had just defeated the lamia and her scarab swarms in session 3. In session 4, they managed to grab the platinum key in the water serpent trap, although one character was teleported into the stream but managed to swim to the shore before falling over the falls. The party was torn between a vocal minority wanting to go back to face the gray angels again and hopefully recover the bodies and booty of their fallen comrades, and the majority that wanted to go to the tapestry room. The latter won out.
It was interesting seeing them try to figure out the sundial/shadow wraith trap. One player figured it out and I gave him a secret hefty XP bonus and told him "This is the right answer, but you can't tell the others - just try to convince them." They got it right and didn't release the shadow wraiths.
They entered the ivy heart's lair and released the zombie knights and firbolg shell, and then a round later the ivy heart appeared. This combat wasn't as tough as I thought it would be, at least at first, probably because the firbolg and zombie knights were quickly dispatched and the Ivy Heart wasn't quite as tough on its own. I adjusted mid-combat by changing the recharge on Burst of Brambles from six only to pretty much whenever I felt like it (effectively an at-will, although I probably used it once every two or three rounds). This put the fear back in them, especially after I rolled a crit and did 35 HP of damage on three PCs at once.
We had to pause mid-combat as it was 1AM and many of us had to work the next morning, so we continued on with session 5. They almost lost a couple characters but eventually defeated the ivy heart. I found the treasure in this adventure to be rather slim pickings, so I added in a bunch of magic items into the ivy itself, evidently the possessions of a past adventuring group (I described dessicated remains with ivy growing through and out of orifices...fun stuff).
As they had solved the tapestry lock puzzle (although didn't know they had at the time), they quickly gained entrance to the final chamber with the fey engine. When the ivy heart died, there was a text box describing Acererak's wail of anger echoing through the chamber; I though that was a bit cheesy but I wanted them to understand that this was part of something much larger, so when one of them rolled a 35 Arcana check I described his consciousness following flows of fey energy through the device into some other realm, and a powerful dark presence with glowing eyes. The PC pulled back and they destroyed the engine. Then, to give a sense of immediacy, I pulled an Indiana Jones on them and had the complex start falling apart; I figured this made sense as the cairn stones must have been held together by magic to sustain the buildings.
The night ended with them camping outside the complex. My plan is to have them visited in the night by that reaper guy from a later chapter - Moghadam, I think his name is? Basically, black monoliths will appear from the earth around them, denying them flight, and then Moghadam is going to kick their asses and they're going to be pissed (especially one guy, who absolutely loves his character, the only surviving member of the original party), but then they'll wake up and realize it was a dream sent by the "Dark Presence" to warn them to stay away from his machinations.
I'm thinking of running Tomb of Shadows and Skull City continuously, so maybe will take the approach of beefing up the former so that they're about 16th level when they start. That gives me about five or six levels before then in which I can build up some hints about Acererak (I might also put them through Demon Queen's Enclave, which I've heard good things about and fits into some plot threads they encountered previously. But I will continue with Tomb of Horrors as it has been great fun, and I think they're going to want to find out more!
Last we left off, the PCs had just defeated the lamia and her scarab swarms in session 3. In session 4, they managed to grab the platinum key in the water serpent trap, although one character was teleported into the stream but managed to swim to the shore before falling over the falls. The party was torn between a vocal minority wanting to go back to face the gray angels again and hopefully recover the bodies and booty of their fallen comrades, and the majority that wanted to go to the tapestry room. The latter won out.
It was interesting seeing them try to figure out the sundial/shadow wraith trap. One player figured it out and I gave him a secret hefty XP bonus and told him "This is the right answer, but you can't tell the others - just try to convince them." They got it right and didn't release the shadow wraiths.
They entered the ivy heart's lair and released the zombie knights and firbolg shell, and then a round later the ivy heart appeared. This combat wasn't as tough as I thought it would be, at least at first, probably because the firbolg and zombie knights were quickly dispatched and the Ivy Heart wasn't quite as tough on its own. I adjusted mid-combat by changing the recharge on Burst of Brambles from six only to pretty much whenever I felt like it (effectively an at-will, although I probably used it once every two or three rounds). This put the fear back in them, especially after I rolled a crit and did 35 HP of damage on three PCs at once.
We had to pause mid-combat as it was 1AM and many of us had to work the next morning, so we continued on with session 5. They almost lost a couple characters but eventually defeated the ivy heart. I found the treasure in this adventure to be rather slim pickings, so I added in a bunch of magic items into the ivy itself, evidently the possessions of a past adventuring group (I described dessicated remains with ivy growing through and out of orifices...fun stuff).
As they had solved the tapestry lock puzzle (although didn't know they had at the time), they quickly gained entrance to the final chamber with the fey engine. When the ivy heart died, there was a text box describing Acererak's wail of anger echoing through the chamber; I though that was a bit cheesy but I wanted them to understand that this was part of something much larger, so when one of them rolled a 35 Arcana check I described his consciousness following flows of fey energy through the device into some other realm, and a powerful dark presence with glowing eyes. The PC pulled back and they destroyed the engine. Then, to give a sense of immediacy, I pulled an Indiana Jones on them and had the complex start falling apart; I figured this made sense as the cairn stones must have been held together by magic to sustain the buildings.
The night ended with them camping outside the complex. My plan is to have them visited in the night by that reaper guy from a later chapter - Moghadam, I think his name is? Basically, black monoliths will appear from the earth around them, denying them flight, and then Moghadam is going to kick their asses and they're going to be pissed (especially one guy, who absolutely loves his character, the only surviving member of the original party), but then they'll wake up and realize it was a dream sent by the "Dark Presence" to warn them to stay away from his machinations.
I'm thinking of running Tomb of Shadows and Skull City continuously, so maybe will take the approach of beefing up the former so that they're about 16th level when they start. That gives me about five or six levels before then in which I can build up some hints about Acererak (I might also put them through Demon Queen's Enclave, which I've heard good things about and fits into some plot threads they encountered previously. But I will continue with Tomb of Horrors as it has been great fun, and I think they're going to want to find out more!
Katana_Geldar
First Post
I'm currently taking a break until they get to Level 14, this gives someone else a chance to DM and he hasn't for a while.
Though between 2 and 3 I plan to have them go through the Vast Swamp to get to the Tomb, and between 3 and 4 it's adventures in the Astral Sea to get to the final dungeon.
Though between 2 and 3 I plan to have them go through the Vast Swamp to get to the Tomb, and between 3 and 4 it's adventures in the Astral Sea to get to the final dungeon.
ArcaneSpringboard
First Post
Here's a summary of some observations regarding my last two sessions of running Tomb of Horrors.
So, faced with the two keyholes, the PCs went to look for the keys. I'd tried to start early due to the fact that I'd planned to have the final combat of this chapter for the end of the session...but it didn't really work out and so I ended up skipping the Feywild Ruin encounter.
The PCs handled the Dark Laboratory encounter fairly handily, but were surprised by the Bodak's ability to knock someone to 0 hp with one blow. The planar vats were an interesting diversion, but something I've realized with my players is that they're very brute force...they'll handle the monsters first and _then_ deal with traps or hazards. I think I need to make the hazards more dangerous.
Also, the Force Bridge just served to be more of an annoyance than anything else, as it doesn't really form part of the encounter. It's much more like a 'classic' trap between encounters. I'm not really sure those work at all in 4e.
So the PCs then went onto the Shadow Engine encounter. Instead of a demilich construct, I decided to take advantage of the new Monster Vault and replace it with a modified Beholder. The reason being that the PCs would eventually fight Acererak himself, as a demilich, and I didn't want this encounter to be similar to that one.
This turned out 'okay'. Unfortunately, even with the new math, Beholders just don't do enough damage to really challenge the PCs by themselves. They only get two attacks normally on their turn...and although they do get a random eye ray attack as a free action at the begininng of a PC's turn (but only if the PC is in range...which 2 of them pretty much weren't most of the combat), something like 4/10 of the eye rays don't do enough damage (or any damage at all). This makes it very tough to concentrate fire on any given PC and I think I only bloodied a PC once. Beholders really aren't Artillery...they're Controllers.
I replaced the Beholder's 'antimagic ray' with the demilich's soul drain power though...didn't do anything.
Again, the PCs ignored the possibility of dealing with the Shadow Engine...I think its worth while to describe some sort of energy beam pointing at the demilich construct (or Beholder in my case) to indicate that it's somehow getting power from it. Make it blatant, and make it important. Perhaps make it so that whatever is guarding the shadow engine can't be destroyed UNTIL the shadow engine is destroyed or something.
The following session, I skipped over the Skull City stuff entirely. I'm doing this adventure straight through, and nobody played either the original or the Return to the Tomb of Horrors adventure.
Instead, I brought back a character I've been interweaving between the adventures (she was behind the scenes in the Garden of Graves...tried to kill the PCs before the Shadow Tomb, and now tried again before the Abandoned Tomb). This time, she was mounted on an Elder White Dragon...and promptly got killed like a minion (intentionally...she then was teleported back to her mistress, Vol, and will come back as a vampire in the final chapter).
The new Elder White Dragon was pretty nasty (especially the bite), but got locked down pretty badly, so it wasn't able to take full advantage of it's powers. Can't do a rampage if it can't move!
Then the PCs entered the tomb and were amused by all the secret doors. Eventually they fought the Chorus of the Dead.
A couple of points about this encounter. It's very cramped, although the Callers in Darkness are able to phase through the walls. Also, they simply don't do enought damage. These monsters were obviously created before the new math came around, and it shows. I did the suggested 'double the static bonus' and it worked out well.
However, there is one thing that I'd do to improve this encounter. Don't have the Callers attack the party when they enter this room the first time...do it the SECOND time...when they're looking for the door after getting the keys. Better yet, have them enter the room through the new secret door...it'll give the PCs something to key off of. This encounter as written also has the problem of "what does this really add to the adventure, other than just being a fight?" Perhaps have the encounter end when the secret door is opened.
Anyways, there's the summary of my recommendations and experiences from the last two sessions. Looking ahead with three solo monsters coming up, I know I'm going to have to do some adjusting...especially with the Gargoyle. They simply don't meet the MV/MM3 standards for Solos and need adjusting.
The PCs handled the Dark Laboratory encounter fairly handily, but were surprised by the Bodak's ability to knock someone to 0 hp with one blow. The planar vats were an interesting diversion, but something I've realized with my players is that they're very brute force...they'll handle the monsters first and _then_ deal with traps or hazards. I think I need to make the hazards more dangerous.
Also, the Force Bridge just served to be more of an annoyance than anything else, as it doesn't really form part of the encounter. It's much more like a 'classic' trap between encounters. I'm not really sure those work at all in 4e.
So the PCs then went onto the Shadow Engine encounter. Instead of a demilich construct, I decided to take advantage of the new Monster Vault and replace it with a modified Beholder. The reason being that the PCs would eventually fight Acererak himself, as a demilich, and I didn't want this encounter to be similar to that one.
This turned out 'okay'. Unfortunately, even with the new math, Beholders just don't do enough damage to really challenge the PCs by themselves. They only get two attacks normally on their turn...and although they do get a random eye ray attack as a free action at the begininng of a PC's turn (but only if the PC is in range...which 2 of them pretty much weren't most of the combat), something like 4/10 of the eye rays don't do enough damage (or any damage at all). This makes it very tough to concentrate fire on any given PC and I think I only bloodied a PC once. Beholders really aren't Artillery...they're Controllers.
I replaced the Beholder's 'antimagic ray' with the demilich's soul drain power though...didn't do anything.
Again, the PCs ignored the possibility of dealing with the Shadow Engine...I think its worth while to describe some sort of energy beam pointing at the demilich construct (or Beholder in my case) to indicate that it's somehow getting power from it. Make it blatant, and make it important. Perhaps make it so that whatever is guarding the shadow engine can't be destroyed UNTIL the shadow engine is destroyed or something.
The following session, I skipped over the Skull City stuff entirely. I'm doing this adventure straight through, and nobody played either the original or the Return to the Tomb of Horrors adventure.
Instead, I brought back a character I've been interweaving between the adventures (she was behind the scenes in the Garden of Graves...tried to kill the PCs before the Shadow Tomb, and now tried again before the Abandoned Tomb). This time, she was mounted on an Elder White Dragon...and promptly got killed like a minion (intentionally...she then was teleported back to her mistress, Vol, and will come back as a vampire in the final chapter).
The new Elder White Dragon was pretty nasty (especially the bite), but got locked down pretty badly, so it wasn't able to take full advantage of it's powers. Can't do a rampage if it can't move!
Then the PCs entered the tomb and were amused by all the secret doors. Eventually they fought the Chorus of the Dead.
A couple of points about this encounter. It's very cramped, although the Callers in Darkness are able to phase through the walls. Also, they simply don't do enought damage. These monsters were obviously created before the new math came around, and it shows. I did the suggested 'double the static bonus' and it worked out well.
However, there is one thing that I'd do to improve this encounter. Don't have the Callers attack the party when they enter this room the first time...do it the SECOND time...when they're looking for the door after getting the keys. Better yet, have them enter the room through the new secret door...it'll give the PCs something to key off of. This encounter as written also has the problem of "what does this really add to the adventure, other than just being a fight?" Perhaps have the encounter end when the secret door is opened.
Anyways, there's the summary of my recommendations and experiences from the last two sessions. Looking ahead with three solo monsters coming up, I know I'm going to have to do some adjusting...especially with the Gargoyle. They simply don't meet the MV/MM3 standards for Solos and need adjusting.
I'll second Mummolus. I'm getting ready to run it soon and also appreciate the DMs posting their experiences here. Thanks guys.
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