Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords: Proto-Review

[JustKim]

No, it's not. A summoned monster by default attacks your enemies. If you can communicate with it, you can tell it to do something else though.

You designate who an ally or enemy is when you cast a spell, the same way you don't have to include the cleric of Vecna in your bless spell if you think he's a jerk. The caster, not the spell, determines who the enemies are.

You guys are really sticklers for rules that make sense, but I'm telling you, this one is totally open for abuse.

 

[Kurotowa]

You guys are really sticklers for rules that make sense, but I'm telling you, this one is totally open for abuse.

There is a point in any torturously reasoned abuse of the rules where a DM worth his salt will say, "No, that's stupid. Now sit down and shut up about it or I'll dock you 1000xp." A less experienced DM might try to counter the torturous reasoning, erroneously believing that this will resolve the matter. When really all that's needed is to point out in a firm way that this is against the spirit of the rules, is obviously against the spirit of the rules, and pressing the point will not get you anywhere.

This is one of those times.

 

[JustKim]

against the spirit of the rules

Hey, that sounds familiar. I think I said that no less than twice in my posts.

Yes, yes, I definitely did. I also emphasized with exclamation points. I don't know how you could have missed that.

 

[Felon]

Hey, that sounds familiar. I think I said that no less than twice in my posts. Yes, yes, I definitely did. I also emphasized with exclamation points. I don't know how you could have missed that.

Kurotawa's not the one being obtuse here. You're trying to show how a rule can be abused and the spirit of the rules can be averted, initially under the premise that the ability in question had a wording that was too open-ended. It was then demonstrated that the wording is fairly specific, to the point where a DM would have to be pretty slack to allow such a perverse interpretation of the rules. Apparently, you dismiss the role of the DM in averting such abuse.

Can't really see what point you're trying to make. Most rules are open to exploitation. Summon Monster I in particular could always create feedbags (for use with vampiric touch, for instance).

 

[Kurotowa]

Hey, that sounds familiar. I think I said that no less than twice in my posts.

Yes, yes, I definitely did. I also emphasized with exclamation points. I don't know how you could have missed that.

No, I didn't miss it. I just found it rather amusing to claim to have "successfully nullified the spirit of the rules." I mean, honestly now. Do you really expect it to go differently than this.

Player: I am the l33t rulz master! See, I've nullified the spirit of the rule. Now I can do whatever I want!

DM: No! Bad player, no biscut. *Smacks Player with the DM screen*

Player: *whines* But I nullified the spirit of the rules! You can't stop me.

DM: The spirit of the rules says, "Thou shalt not be an ass." And I say, "I'm the DM around here, that means I'm the law." Now quit clowning around or else I'm running Tomb of Horrors next week. *Smacks Player with the DM screen again*

Player: Waah! Not the Tomb of Horrors! I'm sorry. I'll be good.

 

[Zarnam]

Hmmm...something's not right here

unarmed damage starts at d4, scales up by level from there. If you're a monk it gives you a +4 level bonus for determining unarmed damage.

From what I know, you deal 1d3 unarmed damage (unless you are bigger/smaller then Medium) ?? Or perhaps it is the Feat (Superior Unarmed Strike) that sets the damage to 1d4 ?? I'm confused now...

I was wondering about the Snap Kick (??) feat - how does it work with Monk's Flurry of Blows ?? Can you make 3 attacks with -4 to each ??

It would seem so.

Really Can someone cofirm this Do you get an additional unarmed strike that stacks with Monk's Flurry ??

 

[Staffan]

From what I know, you deal 1d3 unarmed damage (unless you are bigger/smaller then Medium) ?? Or perhaps it is the Feat (Superior Unarmed Strike) that sets the damage to 1d4 ?? I'm confused now...

Yes, that's what the feat does. It basically gives you the unarmed damage of a monk 4 levels lower than you (with 1d4 being the step below 1d6), or if you're already a monk it increases your unarmed damage by 4 levels (= 1 step).

It's a neat feat, but I would definitely not allow a monk to take both this and Improved Natural Attack.

Really Can someone cofirm this Do you get an additional unarmed strike that stacks with Monk's Flurry ??

Doesn't say whether it stacks with flurry or not, so I guess it does. You need BAB +6 to get it though, so a monk couldn't get it until 9th level.

You only get half Str bonus on this attack as well, unlike a monk's flurry where all attacks get full Str bonus.

But you could make a decent monk approximation by playing a Swordsage and taking Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike, and Snap Kick. Though you wouldn't get to "near-full monk mode" until 9th level (they also get 3/4 BAB), but on the other hand you can wear light armor AND get Wis bonus to AC (but not the level-based Monk bonus). On the other hand the maneuvers of the swordsage are way cooler than the monk's other stuff.

 

[NilesB]

t's a neat feat, but I would definitely not allow a monk to take both this and Improved Natural Attack.

Why Not? I's not like Monks deal particularly good Melee Damage for a Character who has dealing melee damage as their only effective combat role.

And if you let them have a monk's belt the feat stops doing anything at level 15.

 

[Staffan]

I don't mind monks beefing up their melee abilities with either INA or SUS, it's just that the two feats pretty much do the same thing. It's like allowing Weapon Focus twice for the same weapon (and yeah, I know about Greater WF, but that only comes in at high levels).

Plus, I'd rather not have 8th level (where a monk's belt would be reasonable) monks doing 3d6 damage per attack.

 

[Andor]

I see room for a monkish martial adept class.

Good BAB, Good Reflex and Will save, Monk HtH damge and AC, no armour or weapons. Stunning fist.
Give them access to the disciplines that have unarmed as a favored weapon. Manuvers known, readied and stances as Crusader, Recover used manuvers as a move action by spending a stunning fist usage. Probably need to give them some bonus feats too.

I'm liking this book for the aditional options and flavor it provides.