Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords: Proto-Review

[Felon]

Tzarevitch, I think you are mistaken on one thing. After some clarification on the WotC forums, the limit on performing special attacks and strikes at the same time pertains to special attacks that can be taken in combat, such as sundering and bull rushing as you mentioned. "Special attacks" refers to the actions listed together in the PHB, pg. 154 +: bull rush, disarm, trip, sunder, overrun, etc. You are still free to use such things as Power Attack with your strikes.

That certainly makes a great deal more sense.

 

[Tzarevitch]

Tzarevitch, I think you are mistaken on one thing. After some clarification on the WotC forums, the limit on performing special attacks and strikes at the same time pertains to special attacks that can be taken in combat, such as sundering and bull rushing as you mentioned. "Special attacks" refers to the actions listed together in the PHB, pg. 154 +: bull rush, disarm, trip, sunder, overrun, etc. You are still free to use such things as Power Attack with your strikes.

That would make sense particularly since certain maneuvers duplicate the effects of a feat.

Tzarevitch

 

[Particle_Man]

I noticed this when prepping my levels. BUT, not all higher level powers actually have prereqs. Also, the powers generally say "2 white raven manuevers". So, theoretically, you can swap out a low level power for a higher level one, and still have the number of maneuvers. In practice, it's a bit of a limitation, but not game breaking for me.

I wonder if you can end up with a "circular" prerequisite chain after swapping out.

If you start with a 1st (no prereq) and 2nd (1 prereq) and swap out the 1st (no prereq) for a 2nd (1 prereq) can the two 2nd (1 prereq) maneuvers act as the prereqs for each other?

 

[Kurotowa]

I wonder if you can end up with a "circular" prerequisite chain after swapping out.

If you start with a 1st (no prereq) and 2nd (1 prereq) and swap out the 1st (no prereq) for a 2nd (1 prereq) can the two 2nd (1 prereq) maneuvers act as the prereqs for each other?

I believe you can and that's it's even the intended result. You don't get enough maneuver exchanges that you can do that will all of your low level maneuvers, but it does help keep you from getting loaded down with obsolete ones.

 

[Tzarevitch]

I wonder if you can end up with a "circular" prerequisite chain after swapping out.

If you start with a 1st (no prereq) and 2nd (1 prereq) and swap out the 1st (no prereq) for a 2nd (1 prereq) can the two 2nd (1 prereq) maneuvers act as the prereqs for each other?

Nothing that I saw prohibits it, as long as you don't try to claim someting as prerequisite for itself.

Tzarevitch

 

[Tzarevitch]

Also for remembering which manuevers have been used or memorized, the book mentions cards, which would be handy for this. By the same token, cards would make the randomized Crusader draws easier too.

It seems almost necessary for the crusader. Honestly, the crusader is the only one of the new classes that I would seriously never play. I think the randomization and the reasoning behind it is idiotic, and that is not a word I use lightly. It makes no sense to me to give someone a set of abilities then force him to randomly determine which ones he actually gets to use. When did a spark of the divine suddenly equate to randomness. What was that old saying; something about God not playing at dice?

Tzarevitch

 

[Andor]

Ok. Here's the take I get on the martial adept classes vs. the traditional fighting classes and why I disagree with the idea that the Martial Adept classes are more powerful. This is not to say that they are weaker, just not more powerful. Here is how feat users (like a fighter) compare against the new "martial adept" classes.

Feat user pros: No action log-jam. Feat combos combined with multiple attacks can be a winner.
Feat user cons: Without multiple attacks and feat combos it is hard to do anything potent. Lone unrelated feats make for a weak fighter.

Tzarevitch

I'm curious as to how the classes stack up against each other. How would Swordsage vs Warblade stack up at 5th and 10th level, assuming humans and 28 points buys?

Incidently, does it strike anyone else as odd that by far the fastest way into Master of the 9 is with a few levels of fighter to speed up the feat aquisition?

 

[Zarnam]

I've two questions to lucky owners of the ToB:
1) I was wondering about the Snap Kick (??) feat - how does it work with Monk's Flurry of Blows ?? Can you make 3 attacks with -4 to each ??
2) Since I forgot to look at the Superior Unarmed Strike - a friend told me it increases the damage to 1k6, is that true ??

Thanks !!

 

[VirgilCaine]

Incidently, does it strike anyone else as odd that by far the fastest way into Master of the 9 is with a few levels of fighter to speed up the feat aquisition?

People keep saying "Fighters are useless!" and it doesn't ever seem to be true!

 

[Vocenoctum]

It makes no sense to me to give someone a set of abilities then force him to randomly determine which ones he actually gets to use.

Tzarevitch

I don't mind it as much, simply because you generally do get a few powers anyway. You may not always have the right one at the right moment, but you do have plenty of options.