Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords: Proto-Review

[VirgilCaine]

Yeah but they might have to pay royalties to Tony Shalub(sp). Or else people might get confused and think it has something to do with monk styles.

Seriously Tome of Battle is...odd.

Shalhoub.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Joe,

You are without a doubt the Breaker of all cannon in any setting. But that's cool they made some updates about the Dragons in the North along with the status stuff. I'm very glad to see this book got a lot of love. So by minor mention you mean like two sentences or more like a short paragraph?

More like two sentences. Heck, maybe one in some cases.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I don't like Wuxia and hate anime. If that's all this book does, it's a no-go for me. If it allows me to add various, generally mundane, "fencing" styles into my game, then I'm all over it.

My decision points (subject to revision) are:
*Power level of new base classes: On par or below Fighter, +10 points. Above Fighter, -5 points.

At a peripheral glance, I'd say the comparison should be Crusader vs Paladin, and Warblade vs either Fighter or Barbarian. I think in either case the 9Sword class is more powerful though.

*Power level of feats/maneuvers/stances: On par with other combat feats, +15 points. Fighters should always take a few ToB feats, -20 points.

I don't think the feats are overpowered, I'm sort of undecided on the Rapid Assault. +1d6 damage for the first round of combat seems overpowered, but compared to more constant effect feats such as power attack or such, I'm not sure. There's no trade off to RA though, except the use of a feat.

Maneuvers look overpowered to me. a 1st level maneuver that lets you charge without provoking AoO's, and then do +10 damage on the hit, seems a bit much.

*Flavor of styles: Can have a Western spin, +10 points. Primarily Wuxia/wirework/supernatural in feel, -75 points.

So, how many points am I looking at for the book?

I think the flavor fits fine, in what the preface terms "culture blind D&D". D&D is not Europe, as it were. Granted some of the schools are oriental feeling, a few arabian feeling. Some are just about tactics though, and the dwarf school and hobgoblin school fit those cultures IMO.

They're not "mundane", but in a world like D&D, that does not mean they're "supernatural". To put it another way, the Marshal or Bard can do stuff that pushes that border also, 9 Swords might push it a bit more, but not all the way.

 

[Vocenoctum]

For myself, I can't find any justification for the d12 Hit Dice all over the place. Granted it's only 1-2 points a level, but it still seems a little too rampant.

Also, Warblades getting bonus feats (from a very limited list) seems pointless to me too.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Maneuvers look overpowered to me. a 1st level maneuver that lets you charge without provoking AoO's, and then do +10 damage on the hit, seems a bit much.

Compare it to a 1st level spell...I don't think it's too out of line, since you have a limited number of them--how many charges will one perform per fight?

 

[Vocenoctum]

Compare it to a 1st level spell...I don't think it's too out of line, since you have a limited number of them--how many charges will one perform per fight?

Right, compare it to a first level spell that a fighter with d12 HD can use one per encounter. And he's got three of them.

 

[Nightfall]

Shalhoub.

Thank you but excuse me if I can't spell. It's not my greatest strength.

Joe, thanks for that info.

Voc,

Maybe it's just their way of trying to "keep up" with all them darn spells.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Right, compare it to a first level spell that a fighter with d12 HD can use one per encounter. And he's got three of them.

Okay, do you think it's better than rage?

 

[ruleslawyer]

I don't like Wuxia and hate anime. If that's all this book does, it's a no-go for me. If it allows me to add various, generally mundane, "fencing" styles into my game, then I'm all over it.

My decision points (subject to revision) are:
*Power level of new base classes: On par or below Fighter, +10 points. Above Fighter, -5 points.
*Power level of feats/maneuvers/stances: On par with other combat feats, +15 points. Fighters should always take a few ToB feats, -20 points.
*Flavor of styles: Can have a Western spin, +10 points. Primarily Wuxia/wirework/supernatural in feel, -75 points.

So, how many points am I looking at for the book?

Low. But...

Can I play a spellcaster in your game?

 

[Andor]

Intersting sounding book. It does sound to me like the proper layout would have been

Discipline
-By level
--Manuvers listed alphabetically
--Stances Listed Alphabetically

And then have a reference index with Manuevers listed by level and subdivided by discipline like spells with their by school breakdown, and another one for stances.

As for the use of it, it sounds pretty useless for pure-pseudo-european D&D types who prefer to ignore the economy/ecology/ethnic/cultural/geography/physics holes in that approach. For more open types of campaigns or more magical/mythological or Easterm/Middle Eastern style campaigns it sounds good. And for D&D should be internally consistent types like me where I want a reason for ANYBODY to be a purely mundane character in a world where magic is as easy and consistent as it is in D&D it sounds ideal.