Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords: Proto-Review

[Olaf the Stout]

No index!

Olaf the Stout

 

[Vocenoctum]

Okay, do you think it's better than rage?

Not sure really. I'm just not sure why they get d12s. The knight I can see, the barbarian sure, the Warblade, eh.

The Barbarian rage is a broader power since it's a strength bonus that applies to lots of stuff over a few rounds, vs the maneuvers and stances being "single use" per encounter. I think the Barbarian/warblade comparison is more appropriate then the fighter one though. Similar skills, HD, and the extra powers. It just comes down to comparing the barbarian powers (move bonus, rage, mighty rage, improve mighty rage, super duty rage, etc)

In conclusion, I dunno. I do like that you don't have to "reserve rage" for that important counter. You can use all your abilities in each combat. I also think this will be a trend in 4e, less "per day" stuff, like Warlocks, Incarnum, Binders.

I'll see if my DM will allow it and go from there. (I've currently got a Level 3 swashbuckler and was looking for the next class anyway.)

(side note: last game, I had a single class, PHB only, half orc barbarian. I'm of the mind that a warblade probably won't do more damage than him.

 

[Nightfall]

Voc,

Why did you bother with Swashbuckler? I mean honestly either duelist (the pr-class) or Unfettered is way better in my book.

Olaf,

yeah that does suck.

Virgil,

Rage is over-rated on PCs.

 

[gribble]

Right, compare it to a first level spell that a fighter with d12 HD can use one per encounter. And he's got three of them.

Actually, he has an unlimited number of them. It's just that after using the three (or possibly only one - it's unclear whether you can prepare multiple copies of the same maneuver), he has to spend a round attacking without using an maneuvers so they all refresh.

 

[gribble]

(side note: last game, I had a single class, PHB only, half orc barbarian. I'm of the mind that a warblade probably won't do more damage than him.

Can you explain why? I tend to agree with you that the average warblade won't deal as much damage as the average barbarian purely because they need to spread their ability scores around more, but the only advantage I can see that the barbarian has in raw damage output is his raging: +4 str which equates to +2 damage when raging. By 6th level a warblade will have weapon specialisation and will be doing that +2 on all attacks (not just when raging), plus he'll have more feats than the barbarian and access to maneuvers which I'm sure will pump up his damage potential. In fact, by mid-level, if someone really wanted to make a brute, raw damage-dealing warblade, I'd be very surprised if it didn't deal more damage than an equivalent level barbarian in a round.

 

[gribble]

(side note: last game, I had a single class, PHB only, half orc barbarian. I'm of the mind that a warblade probably won't do more damage than him.

In fact, if you're interested I wouldn't mind trying a little experiment. The class comparisons in the other thread were very contrived. Post the stats for your barbarian here, and I'll make up an equivalent level warblade and see if I can better your barbarian's damage output...

 

[JoeGKushner]

Here's a question for you. There's a lot of uncertainty about readied maneuvers. Are they like spell slots, where you can ready one maneuver multiple times. Or are they like soulmelds, where it's a count of how many of your known maneuvers can be readied at once.

Going to sound strange.

You have to ready a maneuver to use it.

Once used, it is no longer readied.

All of the sample characters only had each maneuver readied once so I don't know if it's like a sorcerer or a wizard.

Anyone else got a feel for it? Any reason why you wouldn't have to know a stance more than once to use it more than once? Or are they counting on doing a maneuver recover?

 

[JoeGKushner]

Okay, do you think it's better than rage?

When the party gets ambushed after the barbarian's spent all of his abilities?

Yes. The ability to use the maneuvers at each combat, and indeed, to recharge them with a swift action (for the warblade), seems very, very, very, powerful.

At the start of the day?

hard to say.

Using non-core books that augment what rage can do? Once again, hard to say.

 

[Kurotowa]

All of the sample characters only had each maneuver readied once so I don't know if it's like a sorcerer or a wizard.

To be honest, that's the impression I got from the Warblade and quoted bits. A maneuver is either readied or it isn't. Readied Maneuvers aren't slots to fill, they're how many maneuvers you can put that little "readied" checkmark next to.

 

[JoeGKushner]

To be honest, that's the impression I got from the Warblade and quoted bits. A maneuver is either readied or it isn't. Readied Maneuvers aren't slots to fill, they're how many maneuvers you can put that little "readied" checkmark next to.

Which indicates to me, and I could be reading this wrong, that you can only use each readied maneuver once an encounter no?

Quite a bit different than a spellcaster who chooses to 'double' up to to speak.