Tome of Horrors overlaps with new Fiend Folio

[JoeGKushner]

the 23 grip?

So in two books of hundreds or so monsters, the fact that 23 of them are crossed over is cause for major concern and worry?

Don't misunderstand me. I own the Tome of Horrors and ejoy it. One of the better books.

However, I didn't like the fact that it wasn't full color. Didn't like the organization and some of the layout. A lot of the art in that book was also bad.

Now I'm not saying that Fiend Folio is any better, not having seen it, but it's in full color. A good starting point. WoTC has also made note to improve their layout. Still needs work to me. The art though though, is usualy top notch for al ot of the works.

Besdies, this just gives Necromancer the reason they need to do Tome of Horrors 1.5 "Read my lips. No new crossovers."

 

[Bendris Noulg]

You guys are coming across like WotC has some kind of deep animus against d20 pubs and it's bending over backwards to screw them over.

I don't think this is really the case. It's a matter of WotC stating (via Ryan Dancey who spoke for them at the time) that when good material was coming into regular use amongst the majority of gamers, that such material would likely make it into the SRD.

Now, I'm not flaging anything out specifically...

coughritualmagiccough

...but it is kinda curious to consider, with 3.5 coming out and much of the older material no longer 100% functional*, an interesting question: Is anything being considered for this honor? Has anything been good enough to be considered under 3.0-.4? Is the possibility of such happening still a part of the WotC line of thought, or have they dumped that concept entirely in favor of their own canonical work?

Inquiring minds want to know.

*I'm sure most of it is still 95%-99% functional, but most everything already published will have to be reviewed by people that have already integrated it into their games and are currently comfortable with it.

 

[Samnell]

I don't think this is really the case. It's a matter of WotC stating (via Ryan Dancey who spoke for them at the time) that when good material was coming into regular use amongst the majority of gamers, that such material would likely make it into the SRD.

And Ryan hasn't been running the show for a few years now. Anthony Valterra could conceiveably have very good business reasons why he doesn't see copying material from other companies as a good strategy, at least not on the level you seem to want him to do it.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

You seem to misunderstand my want, as well as the conditions of that want.

Ryan Dancey wasn't "running" things. A decision to add something to the SRD wasn't RD's to make, it was WotC's. RD OGL issues and a few other extras, but what would be added wasn't his to make. And, in the position he was in at the time, he indicated what WotC saw as the purpose and drive, the "ideal" of the whole OGL dream.

And here is where my "want" comes in: All I "want" is to know if this is still their line of thought. Per my comments concerning "official" earlier, I couldn't care less what they actually do so much as want to know what they are going to. Heck, going over my own game rules, anyone can tell that I really have a low opinion about 2/3rds of WotC's so-called standards concerning RPGs (and what I've seen concerning 3.5 doesn't have me all that much chipper either). I'm more concerned about whether or not they're willing to admit that others have done just as good or better than them in some regards, or if the horn-blowing in Monster Manual 2 is all they're going to give in that regards compared to earlier official statements made by their representative previously that no other representative has thus far given notice to changing.

If you see malice in this, or some undo need to defend a big ol' corporation that really doesn't need defending, than might I suggest a nice green ginsing tea to calm your nerves?

 

[Olive]

got Fiend Folio today, and I really would recommend it. It's awesome, and a nice companion to ToH...

 

[Numion]

When WotC comes along and creates their own "official" (and by "official," I mean WotC material, which is very, very often seen as the be-all and end-all of D&D/d20 material by virtue of its huge market share) versions of stuff that they had agreed to not bother with, it just strikes me as bad form. Maybe not illegal, maybe not intentional, but it's simply not very cool to effectively undercut a d20 publisher who acted in good faith like that.

People should also realize that it's unrealistic to expect WotC to effectively let any 3rd party producers tie their hands when doing business decisions. If you think about it, with the lisences WotC has allowed all firms who want to, to take advantage of WotC's IP and huge player base. I just don't see how those other firms should then be able to also affect what WotC produces. (Firm A did product about B. WotC can't touch topic B from here to eternity.)

But then again, whatever WotC does causes bitching. D20 lisence isn't enough. (BTW, I do realize that WotC issued the lisence for their own benefit, not the benefit of the gaming community.)

 

[Gez]

Deva (Celestial), Monadic
Deva (Celestial), Movanic

This majorely suck. What about light aasimon, agathinon, sword archon, tome archon, warden archon, ursinal guardinal, equinal guardinal, bralani eldarin, coure eladrin, noviere eladrin, shiere eladrin, tulani eladrin ? If they wanted to put celestials in a book about fiends, there was a host of them we were still waiting for.

But nah, just these two ones. I wouldn't have objected if they had selected these two in addition to two or three at least of the above list, but there, it really feels like a rippoff.

Spriggan

*Disbelieve*

 

[Gez]

Is anything being considered for this honor?

Yes. This and this have been integrated to the SRD, and replaced their Psionics Handbook equivalent.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Olive mate!

got Fiend Folio today, and I really would recommend it. It's awesome, and a nice companion to ToH...

Are there many CR20+ monsters in the book?

Also is the art good (?) any Wayne Reynolds or Brian Despain peices?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi UK,

Hey Derulbaskul mate!

No, no new unique fiends

I'll settle for lots of powerful fiends and some great art then.

but there are three really cool 6-level prestige classes, Fiend of Blasphemy, Fiend of Corruption and Fiend of... I forget.

Possession...which does indeed sound interesting.

The two new baatezu are excellent, aided by some very interesting art, and really powerful.

How powerful?

I think it's an infinitely better buy than MMII.

Does it have the same nod to high-levels that the Monster Manual 2 had? Many over CR 20?

One 3.5 change I noticed, Constructs seem to get bonus hit points based on size like an ooze does (or did... I haven't checked that yet).

Curious.