D&D 5E Too Few Player Options During Combat?

Stalker0

Legend
Ya my group is very much a "consult to rules first" type of group. My job as DM is only really to arbitrate those rules or to make formal interpretations.
In that case I would recommend switching systems. 5e is intentionally designed to put the DM back in front, with the rules more in the back. You might prefer PF, 3.5, or 4e style....which are crunchier and more codified in their rules.

For completeness, here is a quick list of various actions in 5e that do have codified rules.

1) Total Defense (aka dodge)
2) Withdraw
3) Trip (called shove)
4) 5 foot knockback (called shove)
5) Disarm (in DMG)
6) Aim (rogue feature in tasha's....could be used as a ruling for other classes)
7) Grapple
8) Force move someone (used with Grapple rules)
9) Support an ally's offense or defense in combat (Help Action)
10) Various skill abilities
Stealth
Pick Pocket
Climb, Jump, Tumble
Intimidate
 

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Oofta

Legend
As others have said, I find presenting variable situations in combat (terrain, hazards, obstacles etc.) works best.

Without constant change from the DM, players don't really have lots of options even if it looks like it on paper.

It's an illusion of choice because players very quickly figure out what the '"best" options are and just use those.
That was my experience with 3.5 as well; people figured out a tactic that always worked for them and rarely deviated.

More options just give you an illusion of choice.
 

Shiroiken

Legend
I think the implicit answer coming from the forum right now is that there isn't a core solution to my problem and I need to pray that 6th edition has more complex rules.
Or you might be better off looking at a couple of existing options that aren't 5E D&D. Pathfinder 2E and 4E D&D both seem like they'd fit you needs a lot more. 5E is designed for the broadest appeal possible, but that also means that it's not going to fill everyone's needs. There are a ton of great RPGs out there; limiting yourself to just 5E is doing you and your group a disservice.
 

Kurotowa

Legend
One of the "feature, not a bug" parts of 5e is that the player can control how many in-combat tactical choices they have to make via character creation. Class being the primary vector, but others factor into it as well. Do you want to be making complex tactical choices every round? Roll a full caster, fill your spell list with different options, and have a ball. Are you just there for the social aspects of the game and get choice paralysis when you're put on the spot? Roll a martial PC with a simple subclass and relax as you repeat the same familiar combat routine nearly every time.

This is a deliberate design decision. And sure, it means if you prefer a particular playstyle your class choices are more limited. But that's less bad than having every class option play the same and cutting out everyone who doesn't enjoy that specific playstyle.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Because D&D has a long history of called shot mechanics that always prove terrible and extremely exploitable. You want to stop an enemy from moving, you have two options in the core that are available to anyone- either grapple them or reduce them to 0 hps. After all, "you can't get away" is basically "you've been defeated" when a party of adventurers is clustered around banging on you.
Called shot mechanics back in AD&D did tend to be problematic. But there are ways to have attacks do special things yet also throttle how they can be used for better balance and control. The battle master fighter path does it a bit, as do feats that open the option up for other characters. Rangers and paladins have other means of doing so as well - spells. You could develop some bonus action spells that impose conditions on targets of attacks - they'd naturally be controlled by the PCs spellcasting resources. You don't even have to skin/describe them as regular spells - or you can as you choose. Perhaps an arrow that inflicts the Restrained condition grows into an entangling fine when it strikes the target?
 

Re: the OP

Yes, I have seen that, and no, I don't think it's a problem. 4e offered lots of tactical variety in combat, and the result was eventually taking hours to resolve a combat. I'd rather have combats take less time, not more, to get through. 5e's already too slow for me.
 

kerbarian

Explorer
I agree with what many others have said that encounter design is a huge factor. Even if players are using the same mechanics over and over, if they're doing it in different environments, against different enemies, with different external factors (worrying about reinforcements, trying to stop the enemies from getting away with an item, etc.), that's still fun and interesting.

Part of that is not having combats that last too long, unless interesting things are changing during the combat. 5E can have an issue where combat settles down and it's just both sides beating on each other with the same attacks until one side is dead. It's exciting at the start and then just goes on too long. It can happen more easily in a low-damage party, which is one reason I gravitate towards glass cannon characters — they make combat exciting :). A DM can do the same thing and choose glass cannon monsters, or at least skew that direction. But I think it also works to just have more, smaller combats (potentially strung together) where each individual fight doesn't have time to get boring.
 

loverdrive

Prophet of the profane (She/Her)
I've published a supplement to address this exact issue not so long ago.

Instead of providing "general" combat options that could be absolutely stupid when applied to different monsters, I've encapsulated new options into the monsters themselves. You can climb on top of a giant, topple him over, and stab his heart -- and these are inside of giant's statblock.
 


Quickleaf

Legend
Howdy All,

Has anyone else found that player's don't really have all that many meaningful or interesting options/abilities during combat? (Obviously setting aside full time caster types). When COVID finally blows over I want to get back into in-person DMing but I can't help but feel like combat in 5e is way too 'bleh' and static.

Does anyone else feel this way? Has anyone else found a solution if they indeed see it as a problem?
My solution has a couple parts, most of which happen behind the DM's screen.

1. Multi-layered scenarios with interactable stuff
The biggest thing is presenting multi-layered encounter scenarios which signal to the players various things they might interact with (including terrain, but not limited to just terrain).

For instance, I had lasso-wielding cultists riding camels in my last session, and I narrated how when a PC was lassoed, the rider secured the other end to a "horn" on their saddle; the clever player leapt off the edge of a cliff with two cultists, letting them fall to their doom, but counting on lasso secured to that "horn" and the mass of the camel to stop them from falling, and it worked.

The idea being a bit more old school in that I'm trying to encourage my players looking to their own creativity & read of the situation first for their solutions, rather than instinctively looking to the rules and character sheet as their answers. Of course, that's a play style, so YMMV.

2. Encounters with objectives besides "kill all monsters"
If every fight boils down to a race to 0 hit points, then players are naturally going to get very good at that race, and focus on reliable strategies to get there. Instead, I like to include an interesting objective to most encounters.

One example from my last campaign (Tomb of Annihilation) was when the party was crossing Lake Luo by canoe; they'd just left behind a goblin village where there were lurking enemies to the goblin PC. En route, they were attacked by a swarm of mephits that was really dangerous. One of the players thought to check underneath the canoe and found a fetish of hair tied to the skeg of the canoe, the wizard PC recognized it as a component for a curse that they correctly deduced was drawing the mephits to them. By cutting loose the fetish, they ended what would otherwise have been a brutal encounter. Now, they were aware that the enemies of the goblin paladin were willing to break the tense truce that existed in the goblin village, and had evidence they could bring to the goblin queen.

A good DMing habit to get into is to look for opportunities to inject interesting objectives into encounters you haven't had time to plan out or otherwise seem headed toward a "kill all monsters" scenario. A few "kill all monsters" is ok, but IMO they should be the spice rather than the heart of the meal.

3. Say "yes" to creative tactics from players of martial PCs
This is a corollary to my house rule allowing casters to tweak their spells by upcasting them or expending Inspiration.

Especially with fighters, but more generally with martial-oriented PCs, I often let the player attach some kind of forced movement or some minor maneuver to their attacks.

Here's an example going back to that player from point #1 - the player wanted to tackle two cultists, essentially Shoving both of them, one 5 feet, the other 10 feet, and falling off the cliff edge with them. I took what I knew of the rules and that PC's capabilities (typically attacked as Action and bonus action grapple), and simply had him make two Shove attempts as their action + bonus action, and let him do the 10 foot shove since he was sacrificing themself (well, potentially, if the lasso were cut or the camel failed its Strength check). It was a very easy quick call, and accomplished exactly what the player was trying.

4. A few house rules
I've been playing with some house rules to attach special moves to weapons in the way Baldur's Gate 3 has "weapon skills." For example, a pinning shot made with a bow that does damage and also reduces/negates the target's speed. I'm still honing that add-on system (finding the design space that doesn't overlap existing features is trick), so it's nothing I'm yet ready to share, but the key is to add such house rules with 5e's simplicity in mind. You can go too far in this direction, and at that point you may be better off with a different game, so it's a balancing act.
 

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