Too many action types in action economy

[Ferghis]

There are two different ways to measure an action at the momen. This leads to lots of odd combinations, but they all plot out more or less on the same line of frequency of usage. I wonder if this could be simplified into a simpler and more coherent trend.

• Daily powers can be used once between extended rests
• Encounter powers are used once between short rests
• Immediate Actions can be used once per round
• Standard actions are used once per round on your turn
• Move actions can be used twice per round on your turn
• Minor actions can be used three times per round on your turn
• Opportunity Actions can be used once each turn
• Free actions and No-action abilities can be used anytime

And that's just their otherwise unrestricted usage. Applying damage from a warlock's curse is a no-action action, but it can only be done once per turn. A minor action could be used as an encounter power, and so on. While this complexity is not overwhelming in the way it's presented in the books, I notice mistakes in tracking this stuff all the time during games. If we're talking about fifth edition, I wish there were just dailies, encounters, standard, move, opportunity and free actions. I'm okay with exceptions created by feats, powers or features, but the above mess is standard. Am I crazy?

 

[Zaphling]

The only types of actions I don't like personally are immediate actions.
Why not separate them as two independent actions: reactions and interrupts?
The word 'immediate' before those words causes confusion.

 

[mneme]

Actually, I think the thing that really needs fixing are durations. There should only be three...no, four durations:

1. Save Ends.
2. End of Encounter [the same as "next rest"
3. End of target's next turn [and I'd add "or save-ends if that happens first"]
4. Next Extended Rest.

As it is, we have, in addition to this, end of beginning of creator's next turn, beginning of creator's next turn, end of target's next turn, and beginning of target's next turn. It's just kinda crazy, and often the differences don't make much of a difference.

I don't think "once a turn" is really an issue; we can usually keep track fo that one (might make sense to make it a default, though; then at-will things that can be used multiple times per turn can have a keyword...except that there are things that can be used multiple times per round, and things that can be used once per round...*sigh*)

 

[Infiniti2000]

I think I'm a little confused at both your point and proposal. My confusion stems from the fact that you're combining concepts that shouldn't be combined. You shouldn't put Daily on the same bullet-level as Standard.

So, the only problem I see you note is being able to track stuff, but I have no idea how that relates to the bullets you've presented. Perhaps you intended to go to the points that [MENTION=59248]mneme[/MENTION] made, which I agree with in theory, but you didn't.

 

[The Human Target]

I think I'm a little confused at both your point and proposal. My confusion stems from the fact that you're combining concepts that shouldn't be combined. You shouldn't put Daily on the same bullet-level as Standard.

So, the only problem I see you note is being able to track stuff, but I have no idea how that relates to the bullets you've presented. Perhaps you intended to go to the points that [MENTION=59248]mneme[/MENTION] made, which I agree with in theory, but you didn't.

Well thats his point.

That the combination of round actions and usage limits creates a very elaborate system of action economy.

 

[Infiniti2000]

It may seem like an elaborate system, but the action types certainly have nothing to do with tracking. What does it matter if a power occurred from a standard action, minor action, or free action as long as you know save ends? It doesn't matter at all, thus why I am confused by the OP. I think his issue is regarding tracking and thus I referred to a previous reply. I was hoping he could clarify why he commingled the action types in with the durations. Maybe I missed something.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The 'action economy' is just about action types you can take. They include Standard, Move, Minor and Free on your turn and Immediate, Opportunity and Free when it's not your turn.

The latter can be troublesome, and 'Free' has had to been clarified quite a bit. I think we have a handle on it, now, but it can still cause trouble.

Actually, the 'economy' could be said not to include 'Free' since there's little limit on them.

'Minor' and 'Immediate' could be concievably be taken out. Minor would be replaced with exception-based 'Free' actions that say "special: you can only take this action on your turn, and only once per turn unless you expend a move or standard action to do it again." Immediate would presumably be replaced with Opportunity, again with the occassional 'special' line...


Not sure how much of an improvement that would be.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

I'm pretty happy with the current number of actions. Minor/Swift actions are one of my favorite additions to the game.

The only change I might see is combining opportunity actions and immediate actions so that you only have one kind of action that happens on somebody else's turn.

 

[mneme]

I think his point is that when tracking what you have/can use, things get hairy. They do, with arbitrary limit powers (healing word), daily numerical limit powers (lay on hands), secondary resource powers (channel div), 1/round modifiers, 1/turn oas and extra damage, etc. Once you get enough of this it becomes hard to track.

FWIW, one easy thing to change: Get rid of the restriction of not doing OAs and Immediates on your turn. It only causes trouble -- you're already restricted from doing them more than once a turn, so this restriction does two things: 1. Cause people to accidentally violate it, and 2. Create holes in defensive abilities that players can exploit based on system mastery rather than abilities or clever plans.

 

[Infiniti2000]

FWIW, one easy thing to change: Get rid of the restriction of not doing OAs and Immediates on your turn. It only causes trouble -- you're already restricted from doing them more than once a turn, so this restriction does two things: 1. Cause people to accidentally violate it, and 2. Create holes in defensive abilities that players can exploit based on system mastery rather than abilities or clever plans.

But, it also creates a bulge in offensive abilities that players can exploit based on system mastery. I think it's right to disallow OA/Imm on your turn. The only alternative I would consider would be to completely rewrite all OA and Immediate actions in consideration of this bulge--the only suitable word I could think up as an antonym for hole. Either that or you need careful wording to disallow and immediate for a trigger that you instigate.