Too many action types in action economy

[Ferghis]

No trigger is guaranteed to happen. No legitimate triggger, anyway. 'When he starts his turn' or 'when he does anything' and the like not being valid triggers.

I've heard this elsewhere, and I think it's a pretty silly limitation. I can set the trigger to when an ally says "Boo." Then, Joe can have his character say "Boo" (a free action that can be performed at any time, even in the middle of the resolution of a power) at the right time, and the readied action goes off.

I'm sure there are some situations in which a DM can foil the trigger, but that quickly turns into a very silly game. The simple truth is that the trigger is guaranteed to happen. If you want to insert the word "virtually" in that sentence, feel free.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Sorry, as you note, that should be when they've readied an action to charge at the start of the defender's next turn.

Which you can't do.

I've heard this elsewhere, and I think it's a pretty silly limitation.

It's part of the rules of the Ready action. If you consistently ignore or circumvent it then, yeah, you'll potentially have problems with Ready being abused.

 

[Ferghis]

It's part of the rules of the Ready action.

A limitation that can be simply easily sidestepped is still not a real limitation, even if it's boldfaced, triple underlined and blessed by an old man with seven canaries.

If you consistently ignore or circumvent it then, yeah, you'll potentially have problems with Ready being abused.

I mean this in the least sarcastice way possible: the point you're arguing against here is to stop someone from circumventing the core functions of defenders. So, um, what's the most polite way I can suggest getting some perspective?

 

[Zuche]

Which you can't do. It's part of the rules of the Ready action. If you consistently ignore or circumvent it then, yeah, you'll potentially have problems with Ready being abused.

I don't see how I can ignore something that isn't there -- the immediate reaction takes place right after all the effects that occur at the start of the defender's next turn -- but let's say you're correct. You're still left with the option to ready actions when the defender makes an attack. The target of that attack does not have to be specified.

It's great that the defender can let allies maneuver around adjacent enemies, but the role is also supposed to be able to take a shot at anyone that dares to go after another target. Readied actions prevent that from happening. Is the fighter supposed to counter that by then readying an action to attack when an enemy attacks? That would certainly put a group of enemies that all have readied actions that trigger after the defender attacks, but now the enemy can precisely restrict which enemy is going to take the defender's attack in a given round, leaving everyone else free to charge or make ranged attacks while next to the defender.

You could instead have the defender opt to specify that a readied action takes place when an enemy targets someone else with an attack, but even that allows for wriggle room, and should a defender really be forced into a guessing game of readied actions to adequately fill that role?

You can argue that this doesn't neutralize the defender's options at all because said character's initiative has now been reset to take place before the attack that triggered said action, meaning that any triggered actions the enemy uses now take place outside of the defender's turn again, and those don't happen in the same turn. Great, that would leave you with opportunity actions again, but most defenders rely on their immediate reaction attack, which you've been forced to use at the cost of your standard action. That may be fine for fights with enemies that have decent immediate action attacks as well, but those aren't that common.