D&D General Too many cultists

[Larnievc]

D&D has too many cultists in their adventures. Let’s give them other ideas to replace cultists

1. Organized Crime

A crime cult?

 

[Nebulous]

D&D has too many cultists in their adventures. Let’s give them other ideas to replace cultists

1. Organized Crime

Disagree. Cultist miniatures look AWESOME and I have tons of those, so there will always be cultists.

 

[Jd Smith1]

You're making a great case for the use of organized criminals in games because those all sounds like excellent adventure hooks to me. The cartels in Mexico don't seem to be afraid of a fight when bribes, threats, and other options fail them.

The cartels have transitioned from being OC into a regional if not national force. To use the cartels in a setting, you would need them to have a highly illegal cash flow and a weak, ineffective government, with a neighboring nation who will effectively oppose an overt assumption of power by the cartels. .

Isn't this applicable to just about anyone the PCs kill? If they're in Baldur's Gate there's a good chance those cultist came from the local area, right?

Proof of cultist behavior is usually self-evident, and assumes that being a cult member carries a death sentence.

Again, that sounds like a fantastic adventure hook. And Harriet Tubman did it in real life so I don't see we can't do that in a fantasy game.

Tubman smuggled slaves in ones and twos, through deception. Not an undertaking well-suited to a fantasy setting.

Slave states tend to be highly effective at controlling their labor populations. The only successful slave revolt in history was enabled by local diseases decimating the troops sent to put down the uprising. Look at today's massive slave population: more slaves than in the mid-1800s, in a world with a near-universal ban on slavery.

If you would use slavery, I would recommend the history of the Congo as a good go-to setting. It was an excellent (if amoral) economic model in which the controlling power (Belgium) held sway by simple fear, rather than chains and auction blocks.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I feel like there's some incredible magical thinking about organised crime in these pieces, where people believe that it's this unstoppable elemental force or like trying to catch the wind or something.

History shows that to be completely false.

Organised crime absolutely can be stopped and absolutely can be a good enemy and absolutely does have a reason to stand and fight in many cases. Outside of comic books, organised crime organisations are not regenerating hydras, and decapitating them or just killing or jailing most of them can be very effective.

The problem then isn't regeneration but the vacuum, both in power and black market economy, that exists. But that can lead to more adventures.

As for the idea that killing organised criminals will have consequences in the society they are part of, absolutely! But so should cultists. And this is something D&D tends to gloss over. The Baron's family will be mad if you kill him for being a criminal, but guess what, they'll be mad if you kill him for being a cultist. If one would get your throat slit by an assassin, both would. The problem is a different kind of magical thinking re cultists, where there's an assumption that killing them never has consequences.

I'm not saying cultists aren't awesome, but the OP is flatly right that they're overused and used lazily, particularly by official adventures through all editions.

Mercenary companies of a nasty bent are often good enemies. They have access to magic, lots of combatants, may have exotic creatures, golems, etc and tend to be possible to destroy.

Magic or martial arts schools are a possibility, though you do probably want to make them adult educational institutions, as it were.

Aggressive mercantile organisations can work. I have an East India Company but worse type organisation in my game which frequently clashes with the PCs. They also have a lot of spies and catspaws and so on.

Unpopular rulers, especially oppressive ones, can work really well. As can their agents in other societies.

Non-cult but dangerous religions can work. In my setting there is an entirely above ground and open non-evil religious group which seeks dominance and is willing to war to get it which also clashes with the PCs plenty. No skulking cultists they - indeed they may sometimes be on the same side as the PCs vs cultists.

 

[Weiley31]

Replace all cultists and organized criminals with bears.
Problem solved.

Bear Cultists lead by a Ranger, who is the head of an organized crime ring, after he personally eliminated the picnic basket swiping leader who didn't realize the picnic baskets was a cult of organized crime gangster mimics.

 

[generic]

IMHO cultists are a go-to enemy for the same reason Nazis end up one in modern games--there's no moral ambiguity there. When your enemy literally wants to sacrifice people and bring about the destructive re-ordering of the world (or outright wants to end it), there's no real question about whether you're doing the right thing fighting them.

Not at my table. That's what Undead are for.

 

[generic]

Furthermore, even when I do create cultists who are killed by the players with little thought as to their lives, because cultists are fanatics, they serve as fantastic, amazing enemies, IMHO.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Criminal bear cultists engaging in slaving and piracy.

 

[Digital M@]

Cultists are fantasy Nazi. I do like fanatic bear cultist idea. I may break that out in a session just to see the player faces. I will just play it straight and let them guess why and what is going on.

 

[generic]

Cultists are fantasy Nazi. I do like fanatic bear cultist idea. I may break that out in a session just to see the player faces. I will just play it straight and let them guess why and what is going on.

The difference being that cultists are usually religious, and that's exactly what Nazis don't like.