Too many feats? (or - Why is this a feat?)

[El Ravager]

I think that the Core feats are designed well enough. Alot of the basic combat manuvers in the PHB such as trip, bullrush, disarm, etc. can be accomplished without a feat, but having the feat makes the manuver better. I agree that new combat manuver feats like Power Dive that create new moves that could be done without a feat are bad. I think feats like that would be fine if they outlined how to accomplish the manuver without the feat. All that would need to be done would be to add a Normal entry after the Benefit entry to describe how the new manuver worked without the feat.

All the combat feats in the PHB that should be posssible without the feat are in some form. Expertise was mentioned, but even that feat is just an improvement of an ability that characters alread can do. The feat discription says that a character can get a +2 dodge bonus at a -4 to attacks without the feat. Power Attack I see as simply an improved version of the normal attack. In combat, characters are already trying to whack their opponents as hard as possible, but power attack allows those with training the possibility to hit even harder.

I think that there are too many feats that introduce new combat manuvers. If they simply took the time to describe how to perform the action to a lesser effect or with a penalty without having the feat, I think these feats would be fine and add a helluva lot more to the game.

 

[kengar]

Re: Re: Too many feats? (or - Why is this a feat?)

Yes again. That's why I'm increasingly leaning toward only allowing feats from the PHB. You can do just about anything you need to do with them, and a bit of imagination. I certainly won't allow a feat from another source with out giving it a great deal of thought. [/B]

I agree. The new campaign I am co-DMing, we adopted a "Core" only (+errata) stance in terms of classes, races, feats, etc. No splat, no setting (FR, etc.). Just PHB for PCs. This was coming off of a homebrewed world house-ruled up the wazoo and a Faerun campaign with "full splat."

I feel wefweshed

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Too many feats? (or - Why is this a feat?)

Fight Aggressively: +2 to damage for -4 to attack; +3 to damage if you also have Weapon Focus with the weapon you're using.

Yoink!

Although I think a better analog is +3 if you have 5 ranks in Intimidate. Might as well tie it to a skill as well...


Wulf

 

[The Sigil]

What when a player declares he attacks the giant's knee caps to make it drop so he has access to the giant's eyes & head? How do you rule this? Or do you simply say "no you can't do that" ?

"Yes you can do it, provided it conforms to the following:"

1.) It's all cinematic - we encourage "flavor/description" when fighting beasties... that's what makes it fun.

2.) There are no rules bonuses, et al, for doing so. You don't get a bonus "to hit" and "damage" if the giant "takes a knee" when you hit him in the kneecap. This opens up too many "Called Shot to the Head" arguments. The rules - including no called shots - are there for a reason.

So, yes, you can do that. You can also say, "I roll to see if I hit." There is no mechanical difference - the difference is that you are doing a better job helping the other players and the DM "feel" the combat.

--The Sigil

 

[Mordane76]

"Yes you can do it, provided it conforms to the following:"

1.) It's all cinematic - we encourage "flavor/description" when fighting beasties... that's what makes it fun.

2.) There are no rules bonuses, et al, for doing so. You don't get a bonus "to hit" and "damage" if the giant "takes a knee" when you hit him in the kneecap. This opens up too many "Called Shot to the Head" arguments. The rules - including no called shots - are there for a reason.

So, yes, you can do that. You can also say, "I roll to see if I hit." There is no mechanical difference - the difference is that you are doing a better job helping the other players and the DM "feel" the combat.

This, IMO, is a problem -- players want to say I do X and, therefore, get a bonus to Y. In this game, we want less abstraction in the system, even if they don't necessarily know it; we hope that by saying something like this, we'll get a bonus here or there. I worked out a called shot mechanism -- but that's another kettle of fish... There's an written understanding (this system is an abstraction), and an unwritten desire (that my actions, correctly worded, will net me a better chance of doing something).

Originally posted by LazarusLong42
Fight Aggressively: +2 to damage for -4 to attack; +3 to damage if you also have Weapon Focus with the weapon you're using.

I think this mechanic, while possible, is already covered in the rules -- CHARGE. You get a +2 to hit and a -2 AC. It's about the best trade you can make. Power Attack just lets you do a lot more without having to run; in essence, you learn to sacrifice accuracy for force without having to run like a mad man to do it.

 

[RabidBob]

Funny, I posed a similar question a couple of years ago.

Rolemaster had exactly this problem; with every addition of new skills and feats you dilute the power of characters (PC or NPC). Some things you do want a new skill for, ie, adding poison making. But adding another type of, say, perception skill you take something away from the players and force them to dilute their skill points in order to do something they used to be able to.

Power dive is just silly, as are a lot of additional feats. Feats should allow you to do something extrodinary, not limit you from taking ordinary actions.

 

[Mark CMG]

Feats should allow you to do something extrodinary, not limit you from taking ordinary actions.

Feat design rule #1. Welcome back RabidBob.

 

[Henry]

Henry Link
Level 1 Moderator

S-10 D-8 C-8 I-12 W-8 CH-10

FEATS: Get out of bed, brush teeth, take shower, eat, dress, drink, tie shoes, get up, sit down

SKILLS: Polite conversation +5, Retain Job +10, Keep wife happy +7, play RPG's +25.

---------------

Yes, I think that feats are getting a little out of hand when some things like power diving, headlong rushing, etc. are feats that must be taken, rather than brassy things that can be tried in the middle of a combat. Taken to its absurd extreme, we'll see stat blocks like the one above.

 

[hong]

FEATS: Get out of bed, brush teeth, take shower, eat, dress, drink, tie shoes, get up, sit down

And remember: FIRST take shower, THEN tie shoes.


Hong "you eat before dressing?" Ooi

 

[Nail]

Henry Link
Level 1 Moderator

S-10 D-8 C-8 I-12 W-8 CH-10

FEATS: Get out of bed, brush teeth, take shower, eat, dress, drink, tie shoes, get up, sit down

SKILLS: Polite conversation +5, Retain Job +10, Keep wife happy +7, play RPG's +25.

Now, see: you should have alphabetized your feats, then we wouldn't have this embarrassing "eat while wet and naked" snafu. There's a reason for stat blocks! (Oh, and you forgot the Rinse and Spit feat. Otherwise all yer food tastes like peppermint.)

Me, I'm wondering how you got your Keep Wife Happy skill check so high.....