Too Many Feats?

[EP]

Not sure if there's a lot of gamers out there who look at this MASSIVE list of feats and ask "How? When? Who?"

I know in my campaign, it's become daunting the number of feats out there and how impossible it would be to actually use them all. I remember seeing a book of nothing but feats from Mongoose a couple of years ago and laughing my arse off. But there are so many good, useful ones out there too...

We took a spin off mastery feats in Iron Heroes, but they can "level up" their feats by spending XP like a wizard creating a magic item. The more they level up their feats, the more expensive it becomes and the longer it takes for them to level up. On its own, it doesn't balance perfectly, but everyone else in the game (NPCs) gets to do the same thing so that they don't have an advantage. Now my players (particularly my roommate, who detests seeing any class other than fighter that "cheats" by offering bonus feats rather than designing a unique class ability) feel they have a chance to actually use these feats. In fact, they've added about two dozen new mastery feats based on general feats with prerequisites.

How do the rest of you handle feats by the thousands? Is it a big deal like with us or are we in the minority here?

 

[Sammael]

Every time I acquire a new book, I go through the feats and post a list of those suitable to PCs in my campaigns. They can purchase feats by spending XP (3000 XP per feat, plus an additional 1500 XP per feat prerequisite - i.e. Cleave is 4500 XP because it has Power Attack as prerequisite), although they can't get more than one feat per level in this manner. This works for my game; some PCs have purchased feats, others (like the party fighter) haven't, and I haven't noticed any particular balance problems because of this. I generally consider that 4 extra feats add +1 to the ECL, and I award XP accordingly.

 

[Razz]

You can never have too many feats.

What I do is I type them into a Master Index file list I created. I have it sorted by column with Name, Prerequisite, Description, and Source. I also have them sorted by category such as General, Ancestor, Anarchic, Exalted, Wild, Vile, etc. The ones from Dragon Magazines I type out completely and placed them at the bottom of the list in their categories, too. A lot easier than flipping through dozens of magazines for that one feat.

It has helped my players a lot, and a couple are intimidated by the huge list but others are scanning through planning their new or current character and have a blast! What's neat is they can use the Search function to find what they need. Say they have a high Strength Score, they can type in "STR" and keep hitting enter to find all the feats with Strength as a prerequisite. Or type in "Power Attack" and look for anything with that feat as a prerequisite.

You can never have too many feats because my players still ask for things that could be covered by a feat but the feat isn't around yet.

 

[Agent Oracle]

Zee feats, zey are so beautiful!

Lunging Strike + reach weapon = 15' reach attacks! Brilliant!

 

[Aus_Snow]

No, there can't be too many feats. Ever.

But more to the point, it's all about being able to say "no."

Er.. selectively, mind you.

 

[Odhanan]

Every time I acquire a new book, I go through the feats and post a list of those suitable to PCs in my campaigns. They can purchase feats by spending XP (3000 XP per feat, plus an additional 1500 XP per feat prerequisite - i.e. Cleave is 4500 XP because it has Power Attack as prerequisite), although they can't get more than one feat per level in this manner. This works for my game; some PCs have purchased feats, others (like the party fighter) haven't, and I haven't noticed any particular balance problems because of this. I generally consider that 4 extra feats add +1 to the ECL, and I award XP accordingly.

Sam, does it slow down the leveling of the PCs significantly at your game table?

So let's say I reach level 9. If I pay 3000+1500+1500=6000XP, does it mean I can get Great Cleave instantly if I want to? Or should I first get Power Attack and Cleave from previous levels and pay 3000, then 4500, and finally 6000 XP?

 

[Sammael]

Perhaps slightly, but both I and most of my players consider the default leveling speed to be too fast, so we don't have a problem with it.

EDIT: You still have to fulfill all the prerequisites normally. The +1500 XP per feat prerequisite is there only to distinguish between various tiers of feats. So, if you didn't have Power Attack or Cleave, you'd first have to buy Power Attack (3,000 XP), then Cleave (4500 XP), and finally Great Cleave (6000 XP). Of course, most PCs prefer to pay only for lower-tier feats and use their regular feat slots for higher-tier feats.

 

[Odhanan]

Thanks, Sam.

What about the question I just added to my previous post (sorry for the edit)? I'm asking because that may be exactly the stuff I was searching for. I need a way to increase the number of feats without breaking the whole game system or modify monsters etc etc. That looks like a viable solution.

PS: just saw you edited too. Thanks!

 

[Sammael]

Here's the full text pertaining to this rule from my house rules document:

It is possible to gain additional feats by spending experience points. You must declare at least one session in advance that you are planning on taking an additional feat. “First-tier” feats (with no prerequisites) can be obtained by expending 3,000 experience points. To acquire the more powerful feats, you must satisfy their prerequisites normally, and their cost is increased by +1,500 xp for each feat listed as their prerequisite. Thus, you could obtain Mobility (provided you have Dodge) for 4,500 xp, or Whirlwind Attack (Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack) for 9,000 xp. Level, class ability, and attribute minimum requirements impose no additional cost. You can never gain more than one feat per character level in this fashion, nor can you expend so many experience points so as to lose a character level.

The base feat cost was derived from the following formula: a magic item that grants the effects of a first-tier feat costs 5,000 gp. A purchased feat has no space limitation (x2) and cannot be dispelled, disjoined, suppressed in an anti-magic field, or stolen (ad hoc x1.5); this puts the final price at 15,000 gp. The ratio of experience points to gold is 5 gp per 1 xp (as mentioned in the DMG), which results in the final cost of 3,000 xp.

 

[Umbran]

How do the rest of you handle feats by the thousands? Is it a big deal like with us or are we in the minority here?

I don't handle feats by the thousands. The feats are all optional things - I pick a few that give charactedrs neat things they can do that I would lke to happen in my game, and the rest are completely ignored. I feel absolutely no need to go through every feat ever published. I simply pick things that are handy.