Too many ingredients make the soup flavorless?

[der_kluge]

Diaglo coming to push OD&D or someone pushing C&C in 3.... 2....


Seriously, I think Henry is right. Next campaign, just stick to the rules in the PHB. If nothing else, it'll make everyone's backpack weigh a lot less.

I think PrCs are fine, for specific situations. But, they're (a generic "they") are trying to create every conceivable archetype, and that's a ridiculous goal.

 

[Mouseferatu]

To continue the metaphor...

Too many ingredients can ruin a soup. Whether they make it flavorless, or simply make it taste nasty, varies from soup to soup. I want only a select few, well-chosen ingredients in my soup.

D&D isn't soup. D&D is the kitchen. The campaign is the soup.

WotC's job is to provide you with a fully stocked kitchen. It's the DM's job to be the chef, and choose the ingredients appropriate for a specific soup.

Bring on the books of options.

 

[Enkhidu]

If the a'la carte version of D&D isn't your cup of tea, then there's no harm in narrowing choices for PCs. The trick is in doing in tandem with your players.

I think it comes down to having a shared vision of the campaign world.

 

[Li Shenron]

WotC's job is to provide you with a fully stocked kitchen. It's the DM's job to be the chef, and choose the ingredients appropriate for a specific soup.

That's a nice metaphor . The commensales (sp?) however are the players, and often they morally push the chef to use their favored ingredients on the wrong recipes

 

[Mouseferatu]

That's a nice metaphor . The commensales (sp?) however are the players, and often they morally push the chef to use their favored ingredients on the wrong recipes

Ah, but then the problem isn't too many ingredients, is it? It's too many chefs.

And we all know what that does.

 

[Melkor]

I wholeheartedly agree with your post. With the glut of material available for 3.5, it makes "non-cliche" characters a cliche (a great way to describe it, by the way).

That said, I've played the game for 20 years now, and something a little different can be refreshing. For instance, I'm playing an Elven Cleric in our current Iron Kingdoms campaign. He is a Chaotic Good Necromancer - he has been chosen by the Iosian god Scyra herself to pursue necromancy, which has created several complex and entertaining roleplaying situations.

I normally stick with the stereotype, and really enjoy it but in this instance, it was fun to step outside of my normal experiences and play something different - which is one of the strengths of the current edition of D&D.

 

[Von Ether]

When I saw the title of this thread I thought for sure it must be about Eberon...

In Terra Viejo race or home region can affect--or "restrict"--sarting class, equipment, religion...its all in the big red sig.

Just like in the Eberron book, where they have a section that gives suggested feats for different nations...

or that Dragon Marks are restricted by race ...

or how you must have certain dragonshards to make certain items ...

or how the shifters can only really choose two "feat trees" to make the best of their Shifting?

Or how now all aberrations are tied into one origin?

There are "flavorful" boundries in Eberron if you take the time to notice them, as compared to slighting the setting as you pimp your own stuff.

 

[Vanion]

Depends on what exactly you mean by restrictions. I won't go into the 2ed restricted multiclass analogy too deeply, but I understand the logic you're using and agree with it whole heartedly. For the most part, I think that this can be remedied by long backstories and traditions concerning races, common rituals, details on the societies and the complexities found within. For the most part, you simply need to look into homebrew settings for that kind of detail - I don't want to anger FR fans, but I found that for the most part surface elves were simply ewoks with pointy ears and magic. They live in trees, have loosely arranged benevolent societies with rulers that are rarely ever challenged (Fey'ri attacks on Evermeet being one of the few exceptions). While it's a relatively cool concept, it doesn't really give you any genuine depth to work with, nor does it tie the character's background to their personality, because they have no strong societal influences to react to in most cases, only personal ones.

Don't even get me started about my opinions on Drow.

Personally I find that I rarely use the PrCs in source books at all, and just like them as inspiration and reading material. For the most part, since I'm an obsessive house ruler, I'll allow players to generate their own concepts, and then balance them out, edit it to a point we're both happy, and make it available for inclusion. It's not a "Whee! Twinking time!" opportunity in the least - if they really want to be overpowered they can just make an X Rogue/1 Shadowdancer, Dragon Disciples, Mystic Theurges or any of the other broken builds available in the core books; I hardly need to create a new one.

It's just an opportunity to focus their build in a very personal direction, which is pretty much required for warriors who want to be more than very simplistic smiters, or Horizon Walkers who routinely get the crap kicked out of them.

Anyway, I've found some interesting homebrew settings online...worth looking into if you find that the standard races available have little personality to them.

 

[TerraDave]

Just like in the Eberron book, where they have a section that gives suggested feats for different nations...

or that Dragon Marks are restricted by race ...

or how you must have certain dragonshards to make certain items ...

or how the shifters can only really choose two "feat trees" to make the best of their Shifting?

Or how now all aberrations are tied into one origin?

There are "flavorful" boundries in Eberron if you take the time to notice them, as compared to slighting the setting as you pimp your own stuff.

That reminds me, we do also have a few feat and skill restrictions,

 

[ColonelHardisson]

To continue the metaphor...

Too many ingredients can ruin a soup. Whether they make it flavorless, or simply make it taste nasty, varies from soup to soup. I want only a select few, well-chosen ingredients in my soup.

D&D isn't soup. D&D is the kitchen. The campaign is the soup.

WotC's job is to provide you with a fully stocked kitchen. It's the DM's job to be the chef, and choose the ingredients appropriate for a specific soup.

Bring on the books of options.

This is exactly how I feel. More options are always better. Individual DMs should tailor the game the way they want it, and let the players know how things are. I know some will say they don't wanna have to mess around with choosing what fits in their game or not, but I have to say, meaning offense to no one, tough. It would be the height of self-absorption for anyone to presume that their way of playing should take precedence over that of anyone else. Want fewer options? There are games out there like that. D&D/d20 isn't one of them.