Too much magic in DnD - Lets fo something about it 2.

[bramadan]

First of all, forget my XP musings. They realy are campaing specific and system, if it is good, should work with or without them.

However, one of the principal points of the system as I envisage it is elimintation of such DnD-isms as "spells per day", "Mana", spell points etc... Point is if you know the spell you can cast it.
Limitting factors being time, components and consequences. I know that this is serious breach with DnD as it currently stands and it is taking me enormous amount of time to re-do the spells to fit this bill, but ultimately I believe that this is the best way to get rid of the video-gamish feel of magic. I like your idea as a sort-off quick fix but do think that the real solution requires getting rid of "spels per day" totaly no matter how incompatible it would make this version with the "mainstream game".

At the very least I intend this system to be as different from the standard spell casting as grim-and-gritty is from standard combat rules...

 

[RangerWickett]

Why not allow characters to use Spellcraft to cast spells directly from a spellbook? There would have to be limitations put on this, of course, but it would allow these "scholars" to have some magical ability at first level.

Casting spells from spellbooks? Just such rules (and many more) are presented in this teaser for Mythic Earth, a book being published by Natural 20 Press.

http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5727

Here's the exact text of the optional rule, if you don't want to click the link.

Use Magic Device (Cha; Trained Only)

Except as noted, this skill functions exactly as presented in the Player’s Handbook. Note that this version of Use Magic Device is not a restricted skill. Any class may now the skill, and indeed it is useful for wizards who do not have the time or resources to properly scribe a spell into their own spellbooks.

Cast Spell from Spellbook: This use of the skill allows you to cast a spell directly out of a spellbook as if you were casting it from a scroll, and as if the spell were on your spell list. First, you must decipher the spell, either with read magic, a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the spell’s level), or a Use Magic Device check (DC 25 + the spell’s level).

To be able to cast the spell, the base DC of this ability is 20, and your effective caster level is your result minus 20 (it’s okay to have a caster level of 0). If the spell is on your class’s spell list, add your actual caster level to your roll (but your caster level cannot exceed 20). If your appropriate ability score to cast the spell (typically Intelligence for a wizard’s spellbook), you must also make another roll to emulate ability score, which allows you to act as if your ability score were equal to your check result minus 15. You cannot cast the spell from the spellbook unless your ability score is equal to 10 + the spell’s level.

Make a caster level check, with a DC equal to the spell’s minimum caster level + 1. If you succeed this check, you cast the spell successfully. If you fail, make another caster level check against the same DC. If you fail this second roll, a mishap occurs. A mishap is an uncontrolled release of magical energy, typically with dangerous results. The default mishap deals 1d6 points of damage per spell level to you.

Casting a spell in this manner takes a number rounds equal to 1 + the spell’s level, plus whatever time is required to decipher the text.

For example, an Egyptologist finds The Book of Life, and attempts to cast raise dead on a friend who died recently (note that raise dead is available on the class spell list of some arcane spellcasters). She must first find a way to decipher it, such as with a Use Magic Device check (DC 30). Her Intelligence is only 13, so she must succeed another Use Magic Device check (DC 30) to be able to act as if her Intelligence were high enough to cast a 5th level spell. Next, she must succeed a Use Magic Device check of DC 20 to be able to actually as an Egyptian wizard. Her check result is 24, good enough, and it gives her an effective caster level of 4. Since normally she’d need a caster level of 9 to cast the spell safely, finally she must succeed a caster level check (DC 10) to cast the spell. If she succeeds at this difficult task, which takes 5 rounds of reading from the spellbook, she can revive her departed friend.

 

[kenjib]

However, one of the principal points of the system as I envisage it is elimintation of such DnD-isms as "spells per day", "Mana", spell points etc... Point is if you know the spell you can cast it. Limitting factors being time, components and consequences. I know that this is serious breach with DnD as it currently stands and it is taking me enormous amount of time to re-do the spells to fit this bill, but ultimately I believe that this is the best way to get rid of the video-gamish feel of magic. I like your idea as a sort-off quick fix but do think that the real solution requires getting rid of "spels per day" totaly no matter how incompatible it would make this version with the "mainstream game".

At the very least I intend this system to be as different from the standard spell casting as grim-and-gritty is from standard combat rules...

That sounds great and ideally I completely agree 100%. My two concerns with such an ambitious undertaking are that:

1. The more ambitious a project is, the less likely it is to ever be completed. This is doubly so for a project that is not part of a paid job.

2. The more the rules diverge from the standard rules the more playtesting and fine tuning they require, all of which requires significant resources, of which we have a sparing amount - the ENWorld community does not commit large amounts of attention to examining new rules. Witness the slow pace and general inattentiveness of the house rules section of the board.

I love lists too much, don't I?

I'd be happy to help out though as soon as I see your necromancer prestige class and the framework you plan to use. The general concept is great. You might want to skim through the Sovereign Stone magic system for some ideas as well. There are no arbitrary limitations on spell casters, which is part of the feel you're after. Their limiting mechanisms are a bit different from what you're going for but still might give you some food for thought.

EDIT: Oops - almost forgot another thing. Check this out - http://www.atlas-games.com/pdf_storage/occultlore_ad.pdf

Both this and the natural 20 release that RangerWickett pointed out have possible potential for letting us build off of pre-existing OGL rules instead of making something new.

 

[bramadan]

Thanks for kind words.
I am finishing the Necromancer but sadly will be totaly busy this weekend (I got a conference to attend). I will post it as soon as it is done and then we can work from there.

 

[mkletch]

I am in the process of creating a low magic campaign (think of the movie Dragonslayer, where the townspeople travel 100 leagues to find a wizard to help them, and he is very old). I think it is something that can have merit. How to dilute the magic and still have D&D is another problem entirely. A lot of players look forward to playing in, or at least trying a low magic campaign, so it obviously has some merit. The one thing to remember is that 3E is not 2E or 1E. Throw away all of your expectations (although if you haven't in 18 months, you probably never will), and just play the game.