Too much prose in RPGs?

[dragoner]

I read this and wonder if I am doing too much prose, I do add some though it is like chrome, and not part of the mechanics, more just lorem ipsum due to not having outside artwork. Which I would like to have, though my books are map heavy, with the Eta Cassiopeiae one I am working on is 100 mb, twice what Solis People of the Sun is, and it has 60+ maps. I'm kinda a map junky I guess, I just try to keep it down size wise.

 

[hawkeyefan]

It all depends on the purpose of the writing. I like rules that are clearly presented and concise. I like setting information that’s evocative and inspirational.

Each has a place. But they should be distinct.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I have to say, one of the things driving this is I've done a little bit of paid freelance RPG writing, and I've found myself trying to turn simple concepts into RPG-like prose. I would much rather write "furtive, scavenger" than "The <insert monster name> survives by stealth and caution, creeping through dungeons just beyond the range of adventurer's lanterns...etc. etc. etc." I could get so much more done if I wasn't constantly trying to compose unique prose each time.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I have to say, one of the things driving this is I've done a little bit of paid freelance RPG writing, and I've found myself trying to turn simple concepts into RPG-like prose. I would much write "furtive, scavenger" than "The <insert monster name> survives by stealth and caution, creeping through dungeons just beyond the range of adventurer's lanterns...etc. etc. etc." I could get so much more done if I wasn't constantly trying to compose unique prose each time.

I think that’s a perfectly valid way to present information. A handful of keywords for an NPC is perfectly usable. I’d say preferable. It’s both evocative and concise.

 

[Haiku Elvis]

I think it depends a lot on the nature of the setting. If it's a standard D&D like fantasy setting a few bullet points is fine as there is a shared background knowlege to fill in the gaps.
The more unique the setting the more need of explaination and background allthough that doesn't mean walls of purple prose suddenly become needed.

 

[beta-ray]

Have been noticing this exact problem with the FFG Star Wars rule sets.

Have you seen how thick those books are? Edge of the Empire is 445 pages. Age of Rebellion is 460. And this is full-size 8.5x11 pages with tiny, miniscule font. The font is so small I can hardly read it if I'm wearing my contact lenses rather than glasses (yeah, yeah, middle age and needing bifocals or reading glasses, whatever ).

But the problem is exactly as described. There's sooooooo much filler prose, it's crazy. Ideas that could easily be explained in 2 sentences and a simple visual or graphic get sprawled across 4 or 5 paragraphs or more.

Huh. Maybe that's it! I've read through some of their stuff, and heard great things about the system. I kind of hate custom dice, but aside from that, I had a hard time getting into the material. I want a good system to play Star Wars, but I could not get into FFG (plus I also hate how they themed the core sets). So, maybe you nailed what I am having issues with.

That being said, I like a little flavor, but not a lot of flavor. Dislike a lot of prose in my core books. I also don't want it just dry stats either, so I guess I am like the three bears or something.

 

[Bilharzia]

In the last week or so I've acquired a bunch of new RPG material to read:
- The "Bitter Reach" campaign for Forbidden Lands
- I pre-ordered (post-KS campaign) Stonetop and got some materials
- The huge Humble Bundle that includes the 661-page Rappan Athuk, the complete Dungeon Crawl Classics game, and a lot of other stuff

In perusing all this material, I realized something: RPGs have so much descriptive prose that I have trouble "getting" the materials.

I don't want to dismiss the efforts and talents of the writers. I've done a little bit of published RPG writing, and it's hard. It's much easier to, say, design a monster mechanically than it is to put those ideas into good prose (which includes avoiding clichés).

But...I don't actually find it useful. The opposite, really: it gets in my way.

I do have two 5e adventure modules I bought a while ago: The Secrets of Skyhorn Lighthouse and The Corruption of Skyhorn Lighthouse, by Kelsey Dionne, and they were a breath of fresh air. Instead of long, descriptive prose, much of the adventures are described in a consistent, concise shorthand. Areas (e.g. rooms) have subheading such as "Development", "Transition", and "Dramatic Question", and under each heading are succinct bullet points. Easy to scan, easy to grasp.

And here's an example of an NPC, all of which follow a similar format:



That is plenty of information for me to bring Silvara to life, but most RPGs would have used a short essay to describe Silvara, and while I might have appreciated those writing efforts, it would have actually made it harder to absorb the pertinent information. As DM I'm perfectly capable of translating Silvara's summary into prose for my players, but when I'm trying to understand the adventure the prose doesn't help.

This sort of reminds me of going to conferences and attending presentations in which the slides are bullet points of the exact same thing the speaker is saying. It takes me all of 30 seconds to fully absorb the page full of bullet points, and then for 5 minutes I have to listen to the speaker say the exact same thing in a more long-winded way.

(Total aside: the best Power Point presentations I have ever witnessed, on multiple topics, are by Lawrence Lessig. If you ever get a chance to hear him speak, do it. He's amazing.)

Anyway, I will continue to buy and pore over RPG materials, but I wish more people would adopt/refine Kelsey Dionne's approach. And I'm sure there are lots of games/supplements out there that do use this approach, I just haven't seen a lot of them. (Suggestions welcome.)

Thoughts?

Freelance writers get paid by the word, so until that changes (which I don't see happening) RPG publishers will continue to release excessively verbose books. The exceptions I have seen is with the smaller publishers who are usually also the writers. An example is Gavin Norman of Necrotic Gnome, which released the Dolmenwood zine, Old School Essentials, Winter's Daughter and so on, you can see a much more concise style which lends itself to the adventure material being easy to use if you are running the adventure, rather than reading it. The Questing Beast channel calls it 'control panel' layout "Control Panel" Page Layout in the OSR - Questing Beast

I don't think the verbose style will go away because of the audience who buys RPG books to read and not play - which is what happens to most RPG books. There might be an imaginary meta-game that goes on in the heads of the audience for the books, where an imaginary game is being played as the book is being read, but which never materialises. The verbose style is better for conjuring up that experience, but it is terrible for using the book as a tool to run a game.

 

[Smackpixi]

If I’m paying a writer by word, doesn’t seem like I’m gonna just go oh well, they wrote a crap ton more and turned a tt rpg adventure into a novel nothing I can do, no, I’m gonna edit and nerf all that crap and delete from the final version and not pay for it.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Freelance writers get paid by the word, so until that changes (which I don't see happening) RPG publishers will continue to release excessively verbose books. The exceptions I have seen is with the smaller publishers who are usually also the writers. An example is Gavin Norman of Necrotic Gnome, which released the Dolmenwood zine, Old School Essentials, Winter's Daughter and so on, you can see a much more concise style which lends itself to the adventure material being easy to use if you are running the adventure, rather than reading it. The Questing Beast channel calls it 'control panel' layout "Control Panel" Page Layout in the OSR - Questing Beast

I don't think the verbose style will go away because of the audience who buys RPG books to read and not play - which is what happens to most RPG books. There might be an imaginary meta-game that goes on in the heads of the audience for the books, where an imaginary game is being played as the book is being read, but which never materialises. The verbose style is better for conjuring up that experience, but it is terrible for using the book as a tool to run a game.

It would be interesting to do some kind of word count analysis (if you had another axis by which to measure word efficiency), and see if there is a clear difference between outsourced freelance writing, in-house writing, and one man shops.

 

[Bilharzia]

If I’m paying a writer by word, doesn’t seem like I’m gonna just go oh well, they wrote a crap ton more and turned a tt rpg adventure into a novel nothing I can do, no, I’m gonna edit and nerf all that crap and delete from the final version and not pay for it.

Eerr, yeah, that's why a publisher will set a word count budget. It is far easier to fill a book with text than it is to produce syncretic writing, layout and design, which is why it is very rare.