Too much prose in RPGs?

[Bilharzia]

It would be interesting to do some kind of word count analysis (if you had another axis by which to measure word efficiency), and see if there is a clear difference between outsourced freelance writing, in-house writing, and one man shops.

It is not always going to match up like that, and I am sure you can find counter examples. It is simply much more time consuming (and therefore expensive) to produce a "control panel" publication than a standard book layout. A publisher is left with the problem of how to pay a writer and designer to produce such material, pay-per-word is a well established model, although perhaps there are some alternatives. That is one of the reasons you do not see it much. Another factor is that the reader-buyers, that is those that buy to read rather than play make up the vast majority of the audience/market for RPG books. They, by and large, want the verbose style to read, not the control panel style to play.

 

[Bill Zebub]

They, by and large, want the verbose style to read, not the control panel style to play.

A forum thread is pretty weak data, but based on the responses here I'm not so sure that's true. The verbose style may be what people expect, or at least accept, because it's what they are used to. But I wonder if it's really what they want.

Do you know the story of SawStop? My understanding is that he shopped around his patent to Jet, PowerMatic, Delta, etc., and they all said, "We've done focus groups, and nobody wants more safety features."

What they didn't understand is that most buyers equated safety features with "crap that gets in my way." Not "invisible stuff that saves my fingers."

So the SawStop guy started his own company and is KILLING it. (And has started making videos with his own finger as the test subject, instead of just hot dogs.)

Lesson: companies...entire industries...easily deceive themselves about what their customers really want, and assume it's what they're already making.

 

[Bilharzia]

A forum thread is pretty weak data, but based on the responses here I'm not so sure that's true. The verbose style may be what people expect, or at least accept, because it's what they are used to. But I wonder if it's really what they want.

Do you know the story of SawStop? My understanding is that he shopped around his patent to Jet, PowerMatic, Delta, etc., and they all said, "We've done focus groups, and nobody wants more safety features."

What they didn't understand is that most buyers equated safety features with "crap that gets in my way." Not "invisible stuff that saves my fingers."

So the SawStop guy started his own company and is KILLING it. (And has started making videos with his own finger as the test subject, instead of just hot dogs.)

Lesson: companies...entire industries...easily deceive themselves about what their customers really want, and assume it's what they're already making.

I know nothing about SawStop, but I take your point. But don't books such as "Neverland" counter that in any case? - ie. publishers are already savvy to a more utility-based approach, and are releasing books like this - just not very many - and not from the traditional RPG publishers. Notice in this case although the author is not the publisher directly, it is the author's project, he wrote and illustrated the whole thing, with a bit of help.

Purely anecdotally (but not entirely forum sourced) I would say at least 90% of rpg purchases are not played. I have seen a reference to this in the past, but I am afraid I do not have the source saved. RPG companies have discovered there is a market for quite lavishly produced rpg supplements, see Kickstarter - lots of writing, colour, magazine style layout, colour illustrations and paintings. Whether or not they are used in a game is incidental.

This means that the question of utility is low, since only a small portion of the buyers will use the publication live in a game. Compounding this, if you go for a more concise, useful style, it is actually less desirable to the 'readers' because utility-style is not that enjoyable to read as prose. Whereas the wall-of-text style is usually quite enjoyable to read, it is just horrible to use when you are running a game.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Lesson: companies...entire industries...easily deceive themselves about what their customers really want, and assume it's what they're already making.

Well said.

In addition, as has been suggested, I think a number of RPG writers are frustrated (meaning failed) novelists, and see their work as a venue for that failed aspiration.

 

[pemerton]

Whereas the wall-of-text style is usually quite enjoyable to read

This is where we part ways!

 

[Bill Zebub]

. Compounding this, if you go for a more concise, useful style, it is actually less desirable to the 'readers' because utility-style is not that enjoyable to read as prose. Whereas the wall-of-text style is usually quite enjoyable to read, it is just horrible to use when you are running a game.

That part is subjective, though. Even if just “reading” I prefer the concise, structured format. For example, I haven’t actually played Neverland yet, but I love reading it.

TBH I have yet to discover any RPG material written so well that the words themselves give me pleasure. Not like I will read Anthony Lane, for example: I will read any movie review he writes (or anything else: his coverage of the last couple Olympics is a joy) even if I have zero interest in the movie.

No, I read RPGs for the creative ideas, not the actual writing.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Have been noticing this exact problem with the FFG Star Wars rule sets.

Have you seen how thick those books are? Edge of the Empire is 445 pages. Age of Rebellion is 460. And this is full-size 8.5x11 pages with tiny, miniscule font. The font is so small I can hardly read it if I'm wearing my contact lenses rather than glasses (yeah, yeah, middle age and needing bifocals or reading glasses, whatever ).

But the problem is exactly as described. There's sooooooo much filler prose, it's crazy. Ideas that could easily be explained in 2 sentences and a simple visual or graphic get sprawled across 4 or 5 paragraphs or more.

By contrast, one of the absolute best examples of tight, concise RPG prose is Ironsworn. The book is 280 pages, but it's a 6x8 inch page size, with very large font with tons of white space and liberal use of headings and dividers to conceptually "chunk" content together. It's so easily digestible, and greatly facilitated by having a stellar visual layout and document design.

Agreed, Ironsworn is pretty 'tight'. It explains itself and gets on to the next thing without beating anything to death. OTOH it does clearly tell you what is important and reinforce it. Seems like an interesting game, though I have not played it.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I agree with you about the WoD stories. On the other hand, I do occasionally read some fiction in rule books which I enjoy. But it's usually a page at most.

Honestly I'd rather read examples of play, in "play script" form, than fiction.

I thought 4e's little sidebars were pretty well done. They pushed this further over time and the later books have a lot of little bits of stuff, including some very brief 2-3 paragraph 'fiction' that illustrates the material and gives you ideas about how to use it. In terms of adventures though, I tend to agree with your OP, its mostly better to keep it short and sweet. If there's exposition that is required, then it should probably be done in some intro paragraphs to the adventure, or to the section, with specific areas and NPCs being focused on a very few instantly salient points that will convey the concept, plus any required mechanics.

And, frankly, I won't even pick up 400 page rule books at this point, lol.

 

[Haffrung]

Some game books seem like they are written to be read more than played.

Because they are. I’ve seen insiders discussing the customers who read but don’t play bandy around the figure of 50 per cent. And those are buyers who aren’t actively gaming at all, not gamers who have bought a book and haven’t gotten around to using it yet.

Look at Paizo. The foundation of their business is subscriptions to adventure paths. Chapters are released monthly, and each takes around 10-15 sessions to run. That’s if the subscriber is even running an active game - which most aren’t. So what fraction of AP chapters sold is ever used in a game at the table? I’d be surprised if it was even 25 per cent for the early chapters, and much less than that for later chapters.

In that light, and assuming Paizo and WotC have even the crudest outlines of customer behviour, is it surprising these books are designed to be read rather than used as play aids at the table?

Agree with the OP. I think the issue is that, consciously or not, most RPG books are written for the solitary reader, rather than someone running a game. Optimizing for quick reference at the table and conjuring a scene with concise, evocative language, is more akin to writing a technical document than a novel.

It is. And it’s a distinct skillset from writing creative content. But it’s not a skillset that’s so difficult to learn that it can’t be incorporated into publisher processes and style guides. The basics of effective instructional design is using bulleted lists, sidebars, clean layout, and rendering all processes as numbered lists. And even descriptive prose can be written in a concise manner.

But this doesn’t happen. At least with the big publishers, who are wedded to their walls of text model. Most of it is the commercial incentives cited above - catering to readers rather than gamers. But part of it is just lazy traditionalism - designers and publishers presenting content the way it has always been done because that’s the way it has always been done.

It’s worth noting that the most effective, innovative presentation today comes from indie publishing, including the OSR. A lot of gamers love the style of publishers like Necrotic Gnome. And yet WotC continues to churn out books that don’t look any different in layout and design from what they published 20 years ago.

Some new-ish adventures are hundreds of pages long and most of it is fluff that the authors expect you to memorize prior to play. I just don't have the server space for that in my brain these days.

I’m the same way. The assumption that I’m going to read and memorize even a 32 page adventure that will take me multiple sessions to play is unfounded. I’m not 20 years old anymore - I can hardly remember what I had for lunch yesterday.

Which is why I’ve come to prefer PDFs rather than print adventures - I can copy and paste the content into a format that’s effective for me at the table.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

It all depends on the purpose of the writing. I like rules that are clearly presented and concise. I like setting information that’s evocative and inspirational.

Each has a place. But they should be distinct.

Right, so, when I'm about to run an encounter presented in a published adventure; I want to know what it accomplishes, plot-wise, who's involved, and what things could potentially happen, and where each one might lead next. NPCs should be from 1-6 simple statements, depending on how important they are or how many ways they could be interacted with.

Its great for designers to present some kind of 'color' material for a setting, or the setting elements of a game, that isn't really optional if you're going to make the thing come to life. OTOH walls of expository background info is largely useless to me in most cases. Game systems do need to tell me how and why, but don't get carried away. Some 'lore' is fine, that was always a welcome thing in later 4e products, but its best kept distinct from the "and here's how it works" rules text.