Too, too many races

[Driddle]

Couldn't help but chuckle at one of the new Eberron threads when people started asking if it was appropriate to bring This or That other race into the campaign setting. Like we didn't have enough to work with already?

The core PC races in v3.5 D&D number seven already. With each new expansion supplement or campaign setting (or Dragon magazine issue), the collective grows by one or two more. You'd think that dozens upon dozens of classes and prestige classes, supplemented by innumerable feats -- and even house rules -- would provide enough character development diversity to keep everyone happy.

And then we get the latest, well-defined campaign world where certain historical events came about because certain groups of people interacted with each other in certain ways. A rich tapestry of cultures and worldviews already established. And four more PC races are introduced as well, which would seem to be vital components of that world.

Still, the cry for "More Races!"

A couple of questions, then:
1. How do you define race?
2. What is the maximum number of sentient races a game can support before it loses integrity and believability?

 

[JDJarvis]

It all depends on the campaign really. If I wanted to run pseudo-historical campaign more then one race would likely stretch things too far but if I was running a planseccape or spelljammer like campaign there really isn't any reason for an upper limit at all.
My biggest gripe about all the races is the manner in which a vast array of options are treated as just folks... seem a bit off the mark cosideringhow well the one race in the real world gets along with itself. I do think it is complete crap if one has an essentially medievalesque society and the barmaid is a half this and that and no one seems to notice or give a darn at all.

 

[Flyspeck23]

1. How do you define race?

I leave that to the race in question...

Well, for me it's species - if they can't produce offspring, they're of two different races/species. Because it's fantasy, there can be half-elves and half-orcs and the like, but personally I don't go overboard with this concept.

Generally, I don't like "sub-species". Wood elves, moon elves, silver elves, wild elves, dark elves, desert elves, snow elves, high elves, average elves, tolkien elves, salat elves, ... that's what I call ridiculous.

2. What is the maximum number of sentient races a game can support before it loses integrity and believability?

8.5 or so.

Now that's a really tough question. Remember that the core rules feature more than seven races, because there are orcs, goblinoids etc.

For me to introduce a race to my homebrew, it must either be "standard fantasy" or in some way beneficial (read: serve a purpose) to the setting (current example: I really like the kalashtar from eberron).


Under normal circumstances you won't hear any cries for "More races!" from me - and definetly not for Eberron.
But I'd guess people ask for how to include the XPH races into Eberron, because "If it's D&D, it's Eberron"...

 

[Rl'Halsinor]

Well, Driddle, I can't answer your questions per se, but I am in agreement with your sentiment. I'd like to add, How many more monsters and monster races do we need - especially evil ones? How many more demons and devils, and undead? Now while I do admire the creativity and realize the need for diversity per campaign world setting could somebody please explain the need for, lets say, an ethereal doppleganger? Perhaps it comes down to the fact that our players are so familiar with the standard monsters, races, etc. that the DM must find new ways and means to challenge his/her players and throwing new monsters/races at them is the easiest way. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[derelictjay]

Me, I'd rather agree with your statement. I find the Forgotten Realms has too many races, and their too quick to add more. Take the siv and the stinger, now where the hell they come from (yes, I read the Monsters of Faerun book). And Eberron stands, I like their race mix, and they have good back story for most of the races. Now I do have problems with the XPH races missing, but a couple of them deserve to exist on the planes. My problem is a couple of the XPH races are homeless, and Eberron seems a good place for them, exspecially the Elan.

But back to the theme of the thread, for the most part in my homebrews I tend to start pulling races more than adding them, however, if it is a true fantasy setting I think it is possible to have upwards of 20 sentient, civilized races. And please lets push humans to one corner of the world, instead of having them sprawling over the map, that would make it a bit more believable.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I seperate the world from the players.

Races in the world: core races except gnomes, orcs, dark elves, psionic lizard men*. I have no half-elf NPCs (though they exist in the game's history) and very few half-orc NPCs.
Player available races: any

I really don't see anything wrong with a player wanting to be a half-fiend, fey-blooded vampiric Yuan-Ti, if that's what he wants to play and is willing to pay for it in ECLs. Some players get a kick out of being totally unique and some players derive their fun out of power-gaming and number crunching. If a player puts in a four-hour afternoon reading Dragon magazines and obscure campaign setting books looking for the perfect race, why would I want to penalize that? It's every bit as valid as the guy playing the human who spends four hours writing up his character background.

Players should never be discouraged from investing their own time into their character.

-BG

* Yes, I'm weird.

 

[Estlor]

I was wondering this same thing just this weekend. I'm in the process of cooking up a new homebrew that is a Sci-Fantasy world in which the various PC races can come from a nearly infinite number of homeworlds. However, for the purpose of the setting, the PCs are all stranded on a single world and have been for some time. I've been pulling races from core D&D, Unearthed Arcana, the XPH, and FFG's Mythic Races trying to select unique races that have an ECL of +0. The numbers are quickly ballooning up to the point where I have one race that favors each class. I'm starting to worry that it's getting out of hand.

On the other hand, is there such a thing as too many choices if you can find a way to logically justify and include a race in the history of the setting? Suppose I land on 12 PC races... does that hurt anything even if the players all decide to be human?

 

[eris404]

Couldn't help but chuckle at one of the new Eberron threads when people started asking if it was appropriate to bring This or That other race into the campaign setting. Like we didn't have enough to work with already?

I think it's because most people have a pet race that they love for whatever reason. I don't think it's always about powergaming, but that the race just has a coolness factor that speaks to them. Also, there is a strong desire with some players to have a character that is truly different and special - so it's not enough to play a generic PHB elf, he or she wants to play one of the ultra rare Sun Elves that come from a distant valley no human has ever visited. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, mind you, I'm just saying that sometimes players get tired of the familiar races and introducing new ones is one way to deal with that.

A couple of questions, then:
1. How do you define race?
2. What is the maximum number of sentient races a game can support before it loses integrity and believability?

Well, scifi games, Star Wars comes to mind immediately, can have hundreds easily. I'm always reminded, though, of my friend Jeff who was a huge Star Trek fan. Jeff used to complain about "forehead aliens;" that is, the show's creators would simply slap a new wrinkle or spots or a third eye or whatever, on the actors' faces to create a new alien race. What limited his enjoyment of the ST shows (just a little, though) was that he couldn't believe in the entire universe that most alien races looked pretty much human.

So keeping that in mind, this is what I'm doing now. I'm designing a new world and I have made a long list of races from different sources that interest me (including the PHB races, some of which I might remove from this campaign). I have pared down the list to a total of 15 of the ones I like best. Then, I asked myself, "is this a forehead alien?" - meaning, is the race too much like another one or is there something silly about it on second glance. I asked myself what niche does this race fill, can I come up with interesting cultural details for it and how would have this race evolved (for lack of a better term) in this world? Once it passed those tests, the true test of a race is whether the players would want to play one or not. I plan on send the list and descriptions to the players in my group for feedback and at the end I hope to have the list down to around 8-10. That seems like a fair number of options for the players, but nothing too crazy for me to manage.

I keep the definition of race pretty open. I'm not a biologist and though I want my campaign worlds to feel believable, I don't feel the need to explain the biological differences between dwarves and elves (for example) in any depth. By the time one introduces magic and supernatural entities into the mix, much of hard science goes out the window anyway. The players in my group are good at suspension of disbelief, so as long as the story and characters make sense, the rest is just detail.

 

[Hand of Evil]

I am of the view that you limit the races, core are fine, then foe races (should not be more than core), then forgotten/those that came before races (half of core).

Percentages of World population:

50-70% Core
45-25% Foe
05% Forgotten​

 

[Belen]

In my new homebrew, I will have six races: Human, Elf, Half-elf, Dwarf, Halfling, Gremen (Half-Bear). Every races, other than human, have been rewritten to fit the world and that includes rewriting racial abilities. More than a handful of races tend to stretch the bounds of reality. Templates such a fiendish or celestial are rare and no PC will use them.

If players want to play something special and unique, then they need to do it through character and backstory rather than cool racial traits.