Toril as a Counter-Earth

[RangerWickett]

We'd fly a probe by within months.

The military would park a ship in orbit within a year. A satellite in a different orbit would relay the encrypted data back. It performs small burns every day so that it won't be above the horizon at night, which could cause it to reflect light and be spotted by folks on the surface.

They'd find a planet with numerous large cities, clear signs of agriculture, but no industry, no radio. I'm not sure how good the resolution is on spy satellites these days, but it'd be enough at least to tell that biological life is pretty similar to ours -- humanoids, livestock, trees.

And then they'd spot a monster. Let's say it's a troll; plenty of those, after all. Say they locate a cluster of them in a remote area, far from anything that appears to be civilization. The drone ship parachutes in some probes at night, with 360 degree camera coverage and microphones. They expect to record the local fauna.

Instead, Khelben Blackstaff dispatches some adventurers to recover this item. He has previously used magic to divine, "What will be the first opportunity to understand where our planet has traveled to," and he was shown this place at this moment.

The adventurers come into frame, and an elf is about to pick up the probe when trolls attack. The cameras record the whole thing. A teleporting bladesinger slices off the arm of a troll, which starts to regenerate. A dwarf gets his face rended, then healed by a cleric. The fighter draws a flaming sword and delivers killing blows to trolls when they're on the ground.

Approximately 25 minutes later, the US military is drawing up plans to nuke this place.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

I think we'd go there within the decade. I think that some countries would be overwhelmed and want to get in their claims, and those would override the current UN agreements. A whole 'nother planet full of breathable atmosphere, terrestrial food, and resources? Is there a bigger prize within the next 50 years?

I don't think they'd believe "magic" until it was more directly observed, though there might be "unexplained phenomena" of things that were observed via probe.


To introduce a factor that comes up in many novels, do you think our technology will function properly in the magic zone? It's based on out understanding of the universe, and that wouldn't support magic - so are the physical laws different within that 800K mi radius?

Lets assume it does, no reason to believe it doesn't. Now lets talk about the vehicle that will get Earth people there, its called the BFR

This is the BFR rocket, it consists of two stages, and it could transport 100 people to Mars. Both of these stages are fully reusable. It launches the upper stage into orbit with empty fuel tanks, and then the bottom stage lands, a fuel module is placed on top, the BFR bottom stage plus fuel module launches to orbit, the fuel module docks with the BFR upper stage and then transfers its fuel to that upper stage, and then the upper stage BFR makes an orbital insertion to a transfer orbit to Toril, this transfer orbit has a 6 month orbital period, which allows Toril to move 180° in its orbit, the BFR spaceship swings closer to the Sun in an elliptical orbit and comes back out to Earth distance from the Sun, by which time Toril is in position. While this is happening the BFR bottom stage launches another BFR bottom stage into low Earth orbit with empty fuel tanks, one of the BFR bottom stages then lands and an fuel module is placed on top, the BFR bottom stage is refueled and launched, the fuel module then docks with the orbiting BFR bottom stage, fills its fuel tanks, and the BFR bottom stage makes its orbital insertion towards Toril.


Both upper and lower stages make their approach to Toril, both enter its atmosphere and both land. We have to decide where to land the two rockets, some equipment needs to be brought along to manufacture fuel for the return trip back to Earth, some of that equipment will include a portable nuclear reactor, and of course a plant for manufacturing liquid methane, and of course a refrigeration unit to keep that liquid methane cold. The people being sent will probably be members of the as yet to be formed United States Space Force, as this is a First Contact mission, and there is no knowing how the natives will react, so the Space Force crew will come armed. The year would probably be 2025. Below is a map of Faerun containing possible landing sites. A place where the rockets won't set fire to the surrounding vegetation would probably be preferable, and a flat area would be ideal. So any ideas of where the landing site should be?

 

[Thomas Bowman]

Historically look at how much the US developed in term of spaceflight when JFK announced we would go to the moon within a decade. I think the size of the prize would make this happen.

Consider nations willing to do what they are talking about with Mars about sending a one-way flight.

Add in that they don't need to carry supplies for there, and many types of supplies (oxygen, etc.) can be replenished on Toril for a return trip IF whatever nation wants to make it round trip in the first push. I'm sure that they could find people willing to go one way, able to report findings to a satellite in orbit to relay radio messages back to earth.

Yep, 2025 is the launch date, the SpaceX BFR is the spaceship, and the US Space Force provides the "muscle" for the landing party, of course they do not anticipate magic. It could land here.
There would be a population to sign a trade agreement with and to help get the spaceship ready for a return to Earth.

 

[TwoSix]

It can't be that hard to land a probe on a planet in our orbit; I mean, it doesn't even have to go anywhere. Just let Toril crash into the probe in another 6 months.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

You basically need an orbit with half the period of Earth's orbit, there is a tool for that, the Planet Orbit calculator
http://www.calctool.org/CALC/phys/astronomy/planet_orbit
Earth's orbit and year is 365.24 days long, half of that is 182.62 days. If you have an orbit with an average radius of 94,250,000 km or 58,564,000 miles the orbital period will be 182.62 days. Since the Earth orbits with an average radius of 93,000,000 miles, that means the perihelion, or the closest the spaceship gets to the Sun in this orbit which starts at Earth's distance from the Sun is 24,128,000 miles, for reference, Mercury gets as close to the Sun as 28,584,000 miles. Any spaceship that follows this orbital path will need a sunshade to keep the Sun from cooking it The sunlight this close to the Sun is 14.8567306 times as intense as it is from the Earth. A thin reflective solar shield in a vacuum should be enough to keep the ship cool for its human occupants. So the ship slows down from Earth orbital velocity, and falls towards the Sun in an elliptical orbit that takes 182.62 days, in which time both the Earth and Toril complete half an orbit. when the spaceship completes its orbit and returns to its starting position the two planets have switched places. This trip always takes 6 months as the planets are always in the same relative positions with respect to each other, so that makes the calculation rather simple.

I think the first mission will be one way, Toril doesn't have the infrastructure to build a launch tower, and to get back to Earth you would need not only the BFR upper and lower stages, but also a fuel module, and you would need a fuel plant and a power source, plus insulated tanks to store all the liquid methane that you would need to produce. You would launch the BFR into orbit, land the bottom stage, place fuel module on top, launch it again, refuel the BFR, and then head on your way back to Earth. Its much cheaper just to send the upper stage BFR on a one-way journey, and after its there, it could for a limited time be used to travel to other parts of the planet so long as fuel can be produced for it. A nuclear reactor is a bot problematic. On Mars, it doesn't really matter, just hide it behind a hill and stay away from it while its in operation, it is not well shielded, so radiation will be a problem on Toril, as there is an ecosystem that can be affected by it, while that is not the case on Mars. Perhaps solar panels can be brought along to power the electronics and keep open communications with Earth, and care packages can be sent over with spare parts for various equipment so they may be maintained by the crew.

For reference we launched the Mariner probe into an orbit like this, when it did a flyby of Mercury.

 

[RangerWickett]

So any ideas of where the landing site should be?

Equatorial launches are easier, right? And east coast lessens the risk of collateral damage if the rocket explodes, which I imagine they'd take into account just in case. They'd also want a place with few detected major storms.

Waterdeep is a major settlement, sure, Calimport's actually bigger, and has more favorable launch vectors.

 

[Thomas Kalbfus]

One also has to take into account what sort of reception these visitors will receive, from and adventure design perspective, what would you want to happen right after the spaceship lands outside the walls of a city? The crew will be Space Force officers, and will probably include a detachment of Marines, just in case the first encounter doesn't go well, but they can't really conquer they place with just 100 people equipped with modern weapons, and travel across Interplanetary space is still expensive, so no invading armies will be coming for the foreseeable future. (Next decade or so)

The crew wants to trade knowledge and technology to get some local help, so they can return to to Earth. The purpose of this expedition is to establish trade, diplomatic relations, and perhaps to to gather intelligence on the local political situation, as satellites won't determine that, and also there is going to be competition with the Chinese, who are also sending an expedition of their own!

The American expedition will want to affect the political situation to favor themselves and their allies, the Chinese will do likewise for themselves. Aside from the spaceships, the technology they have is not so different from what we have today, this is only seven years in the future after all. You think the Chinese will try to land an expedition in Kara Tur?

Calimport might have oil, that might be a help in developing industry. There are other factors as well. The first expeditions will be ones of exploration, to find out what's here. Whoever the spaceship crews deal with, those people will have rivals and enemies, and also magic is not figured into that calculation. The Earthers will just assume they are dealing with a bunch of primitives that they can impress with their advanced technology.

 

[Sepulchrave II]

The inhabitants of Toril would use divinations to determine their new cosmological status. Then they would scry us. Then they would teleport here. Then they would dominate our leaders or replace them with simulacra. We'd be toast within hours; they'd know about us long before we figured out they were there.

 

[Blue]

The inhabitants of Toril would use divinations to determine their new cosmological status. Then they would scry us. Then they would teleport here. Then they would dominate our leaders or replace them with simulacra. We'd be toast within hours; they'd know about us long before we figured out they were there.

I had taken the limitation on the reach of magic to assume that neither teleport nor scrying could reach outside 800K miles because there is no magic. Much less being able to do magic on Earth.

Assuming there is a sphere 800,000 miles radius where magic operates within but not without.

 

[Thomas Bowman]

I had taken the limitation on the reach of magic to assume that neither teleport nor scrying could reach outside 800K miles because there is no magic. Much less being able to do magic on Earth.

Think of it as a piece of their Universe where they physical laws and magic apply, and also they maintain their planar connections and contacts with their deities. Basically a piece of their universe centered on Toril was cut, and pasted into our Solar System. Elminster has been known to travel to non-magical planes, so he might be able to teleport himself to Earth and back, the level of magic is lower but not nonexistent. Elminster is one of Mystra's chosen, so he is able to bring his magic with him, as are others of his kind. His ability to scry is limited to areas where magic is prevalent, He can teleport to Earth, but he can't scry there. If he is there, he can scry to see what is happening on Toril, because that place already has magic in it. Likewise the gods of Toril can also transport themselves to Earth if they want to go there, the act weakens them however, so it is not a place they would actually like to go unless they have no other choice. There are other depowered deities on Earth that are living a quite existence, they keep a low profile however. Magic was once more prevalent on Earth than it is now. Some of them might manage to get on the crew manifest and go to Toril. The Roman/Greek gods and goddesses are still around, as are the Norse Deities, and those of the Chinese mythos, changing identities from time to time and moving to different places so nobody notices that they do not age. If they can get to the sphere surrounding Toril, they might be able to regain some of their powers.