Tortle PC race and monsters + net weapon

[Nur-ab-sal]

Download the PDF (links to my blog, because due to a flaw in wordpress's file system I have to change the filename with each update)

Because giant turtles are awesome. Comments welcome, with a few notes--
1. They have a racial bonus to AC. Not in the style of 4E, yadda yadda, I don't care.
2. There was some question on the WotC forums as to whether their encounter power was too powerful. I think it's powerful but not too powerful, given that besides it and the racial bonus to AC they don't have any really useful racial features, but I'm open to suggestions.
3. The net weapon and power: this is clearly a quite powerful weapon. Currently for 5 gp and a proficiency feat (assuming you hit) you can on average take a monster out of combat for a round (based on an average of two move actions to successfully escape, and assuming the monster doesn't have/use area powers). Thoughts on toning it down have included requiring combat advantage (which is hard to get with a ranged weapon), requiring a move action to ready the net (which with a minor action to draw the net essentially makes it giving up your turn for on average taking away a monster's turn, which is more or less a fair trade in 4E, leaning towards disadvantageous to the player), or, my current preference, just making it a (reliable?) encounter power (justified since nets are quite hard to actually entangle someone with, and once you do it the other monsters are going to be on the look-out for it).
4. The monsters, particularly the Elder Shaman: controllers in particular are hard to design and I can't really do field tests at the moment. If anyone would look at these and comment I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

[generalhenry]

1. it steps on the dwarf's toes. It feels a bit too strong
2. the trident is plainly superior to the spear often the javelin too It should at least be martial if not superior.

 

[Nur-ab-sal]

1. Well, in 3E/3.5 tortles were basically crappy dwarves, so that's okay with me. But seriously, could you point to anything specific that feels "too strong"? It seems to me that while at first glance they look powerful, actually examining their individual features reveals them to be less so, but I've obviously got rose-colored glasses.

2. I struggled with trying to make the trident anything other than a spear with a different name without making it just plain better (I originally wanted to make it high-crit, for example). As it is now, it is just plain better, but in a way that most people will still just use a spear--for the extra gold and weight all you get is the ability to throw the trident a very short distance. I have a hard time believing anyone will carry around a stack of tridents instead of javelins simply because a stack of tridents weighs a hell of a lot more (and they have shorter range)--but of course weight and encumbrance more or less gets ignored in 4E, so perhaps that's not as much of a deterrent as I'd hoped. I was considering making them martial weapons, but then I'd want to give tortles racial proficiency with them (in fluff they use them for fishing) and they've got enough features already (even if most of them aren't very useful).

 

[generalhenry]

1. it's mostly the +1 AC, it's not much but 4E is very stingy with AC. One thought I had was speed 4 (speed is also a valuable commodity in 4E)

2. they where martial is 3E. Fluff wise fishing with one and taking one into battle are two separate skills.

 

[Nur-ab-sal]

1. Hmm, I'm not really comfortable giving them speed 4, but what about simply removing the ability that negates armor speed penalties? Same effect for heavy armor users, and if you're a light armor user 5 speed is probably still a questionable trade-off for +1 AC.

2. That's . . . a very good point. I was thinking of the Eladrin and Elven racial proficiencies of course, but a longsword is really only used for one thing (and that racial proficiency doesn't make much sese anyway) and bows work basically the same whether you're shooting a deer or a person, while tridents work very differently between civilian and military uses (although I'm not sure there's ever been much military use of tridents. The tortles' trident + net combination is of course based on the infamous gladiators that used them.) It's too bad you can't hold a two-handed weapon in one hand while you draw and throw an off-hand weapon or I'd just make it two-handed (and up the damage to 1d10 or 2d4 and not let it be thrown)... hmm.

 

[generalhenry]

It's too bad you can't hold a two-handed weapon in one hand while you draw and throw an off-hand weapon or I'd just make it two-handed (and up the damage to 1d10 or 2d4 and not let it be thrown)... hmm.

You only need two hands to stab with it. You can hold it in one hand.

 

[Nur-ab-sal]

I agree, but the rules aren't clear about using another weapon while holding a two-handed weapon in one hand. (PHB pg 215: "Some one-handed weapons are light enough for you to use in your off hand while holding another one-handed weapon in your other hand." But that section isn't really rules text, and the actual definition of "off-hand" just says: "An off-hand weapon is light enough that you can hold it and attack effectively with it while holding a weapon in your main hand." [emphasis mine] If I was DMing I'd let somebody do it, but it's not clear if the rules are actually support it, either as written or intended.)

And of course tridents should really be reach weapons . . .

 

[generalhenry]

And of course tridents should really be reach weapons . . .

They don't really have more reach than a great axe, maul or great sword.

They're not pole arms.

+2 prof 1d10 two handed heavy thrown martial spear.

 

[Dragonhelm]

Just wanted to say a big thank you for this conversion. Tortles were one of my favorite races from the Red Steel days.

 

[Nur-ab-sal]

Hey thanks, I love them, too.

Also, I'm still working on some tweaks for this (to the net and the trident, mainly), as well as a new race inspired by Red Steel's Rakasta (plus a light but hopefully effective update for unarmed combat) that should get released sometime next week. (I'm calling them Catfolk after the 3.5 version because I feel like after the changes I've made--particularly to the flavor/fluff--they don't really merit being called "Rakasta". Of course, the tortle fluff is a bit distanced from the original, and these Catfolk will still be very playable anthroporphic felines.)