Touch attacks: is it just me..?

[bardolph]

Hey all,

Is it just me, or is it just weird that Strength bonuses are added when making touch attacks, instead of Dexterity bonuses?

I know, I know, you can use Weapon Finesse to make touch attacks Dex-based, but why should you have to burn a feat, just to make it work "logically"?

I'm considering Rule-Zeroing touch attacks, and making all melee touch attacks *automatically* Dex-based, with no option of making them Str-based.

Has anyone else here gone down this road? Is there some weird game-balance karma that I might be disturbing by making this ruling?

Thanks

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Well, when making a touch attack, you still have to "break through" your opponent's defenses, ie while you try to touch your opponent, he grabs your wrist. You have to out-strength him if you want to get to touch him with the palm of your hand...

AR

 

[bardolph]

Well, when making a touch attack, you still have to "break through" your opponent's defenses, ie while you try to touch your opponent, he grabs your wrist. You have to out-strength him if you want to get to touch him with the palm of your hand...

AR

Hmm ... by this logic, the defender should get a Str-bonus to his AC, which probably *would* disturb the game-balance karma.

Nah, I'm not convinced...

 

[ThoughtBubble]

Consistancy. It's just easier to deal with when you don't have to calculate different attack types differently. That, and how logical is it to have a high str, low dex tank who can punch people around well enough, unless he's trying to make a touch attack? By all rights a touch attack should be easier to make, not harder.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

You're forgetting one thing. Strength=speed. Take baseball, for example -Homeruns are hit due to (among other things) bat speed. The stronger you are, the faster you can touch someone. To a point, anyway - I'm, not suggesting that Hector Camacho couldn't touch you as fast as Lou Ferigno...

 

[bardolph]

Consistancy. It's just easier to deal with when you don't have to calculate different attack types differently. That, and how logical is it to have a high str, low dex tank who can punch people around well enough, unless he's trying to make a touch attack? By all rights a touch attack should be easier to make, not harder.

Hmm... well, you have a point. I think the problem stems from the whole "Armor makes you harder to hit" assumption, rather than making armor a Damage Resistance mechanism. This is great for playability, but leaves a few holes.

This is one of them.

Oh well. I should just leave it as is, then. A player who wants nimble fingers can just bite the bullet and burn a feat on Weapon Finesse.

 

[Celtavian]

re

I've alway felt Dexterity should be the stat that modifies the attack roll for all attacks.

 

[Cedric]

If you want more realism in gameplay...you can make a few house rules here and there, like the one you are suggesting. Give everyone Weapon Finesse - Touch Attack as a bonus feat.

However, that opens up even more problems. Shouldn't encumbrance reduce your touch AC? What about heavy armor? etc...etc.

My way of handling it is to just live with it the way it is. If I want more realism in my gameplay, I'll just play a different game for awhile. One with fatigue, a death spiral (wound penalties), hit locations, lethal damage from lethal weapons (no shrugging off the point blank shotgun blast)...but in the end, I go back to simpler games. Because more realistic is rarely more fun.

Cedric

 

[takyris]

It shouldn't be Dexterity, because if it should be Dexterity for touch attacks, it should be Dexterity for attacks when the person isn't wearing armor and doesn't have a natural armor bonus, because you're then saying "Yes, it's Dexterity except for breaking through stuff."

It's not.

In d20, Strength is not just raw power. Just as Wisdom includes willpower, intuition, common sense, and observational abilities, Strength includes raw strength, carrying capacity, punching speed, coordination, and striking hand-eye coordination. In d20 Baseball, throwing the ball would be Dexterity, but hitting would be Strength, as someone above mentioned.

Rule of thumb: If it's primarily your fingers determining whether or not you hit, it's Dexterity. If it's your arms and wrists, it's Strength. It's a fine line, but no more so than Intelligence versus Wisdom.

It should NOT be Dexterity on touch attacks, based on the rules as they already stand, based on "how the game currently models realism", AND based on the idea of game balance. Dexterity is already probably the strongest ability in the game (tied to Reflex saves, ranged attack rolls, possible finessed melee attack rolls, Initiative, many useful skills, and AC). Don't make it MORE important than it already is.

 

[pawned79]

Nydia the female sorcerer was being influenced by some red coin of an evil nature. During the in-party conflict, she held her hand out and looked at the coin in her palm, "How did this get here?" Next initiative, Nym, my STR 6, DEX 20 elven child rogue swings his hand up in an attempt to slap the coin from her hand. Nym has weapon finesse.

Is this a touch attack?
3.5 weapon finesse says all natural weapons are considered light?
Does he get his weapon finesse bonus?
If he didn't have weapon finesse, I would have to role with his -2 STR mod?

Thanks

Patrick