Touch Spells and Holding Charge

[tylermalan]

A quick read during our session didn't provide any answers, so I ask (all of this is asked in the context of Shocking Grasp):

You cast a touch spell. You immediately make an attack roll to hit someone with it, and miss. The charge is held, and next round you can make another attack roll to attempt to hit with it again. If you continue to miss, the charge is held indefinitely until you hit. Is this all correct?

Questions:

How long is indefinite? What conditions would make you lose the charge (unconsciousness?)? It says that if YOU touch ANYONE, even accidentally, the spell goes off... but does that apply when others touch you?

So now, a few specific circumstances...

I cast Shocking Grasp and attack, but miss. Then, someone attacks me with a sword. They hit. Do they get shocked?

I cast it again, attack, miss. Then, a zombie attacks me with a slam attack and hits. Does it get shocked?

I have an ability where I can deliver touch spells with my familiar. I cast Shocking Grasp and choose to have my cat familiar deliver it. It attacks but misses. Does it hold the charge, or do I? If the cat does, and someone touches the cat, do they get shocked? What if they attack the cat? Armed? Unarmed?

 

[Thanee]

Only if you touch anything, not the other way around. And I would even go as far as saying, that you are still free to touch anything with your other hand, or feet, etc.

Apparantly, you can even hit something with your charged hand, when you make a normal unarmed attack to deal unarmed damage in addition to the spell discharge, since when you get deflected by the armor of the target (not a touch attack at that point), you obviously must have touched the target, though the spell does not discharge.

If you transfer the touch spell to your familiar it's pretty much just like if the familiar had cast the spell in the first place, so everything is counted from your familiar.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Darklone]

Ohhh, a Chill Touch or Shocking Grasp variant spell that loses on charge each time you GET touched... nice idea...

 

[tylermalan]

I'm a little bit confused.

It says in the PHB that YOU hold the charge, not your hand or whatever. And if your familiar transfers the spell, the familiar doesn't exactly have "hands" anyway... so what part of him actually delivers the spell?

 

[Thanee]

Well, I'm purely working off my own view here, but I see it as if you have some glowing energy around your hand, which is used to make the touch attacks, and your familiar will use whatever is appropriate... a claw or bite or whatever else.

It really doesn't matter a whole lot, it's mostly visuals, anyways.

Bye
Thanee

 

[tylermalan]

Well, outside of the visuals thing, this is what I remember the PHB saying about it...

"You can hold the charge indefinitely. If you attack and miss, you're still holding the charge. However, while holding the charge, if you touch someone, even accidentally, the spell discharges."

So, the problem my group and I are having is basically about whether or not the spell discharges if someone touches your elbow or something like that. The most recent example was a zombie hitting someone who was holding the charge for Shocking Grasp with it's slam attack. A past example was when a familiar was holding the charge and someone picked it up.

What happens?

 

[kensho1976]

To me at least, the rules are pretty clear. Though they don't explicitly state that if you cast shocking grasp and are touched by someone the spell goes off, the rules do state that if you touch someone else, accidental or not, that the spell discharges. They don't state that you have to touch them with any particular appendage. And, the rules state that the charge lasts indefinitely.

To me, indefinitely means indefinitely.

I think what you touch them with is irrelevant. If a creature has a touch spell and has no discernible limbs (such as a hand) then how do they 'touch' you?

One could argue the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law in this case.

Of course, I could be biased, since I was arguing the other side with Tyler.

 

[tylermalan]

Hahahaha Kautzman?! Brian!? I can't remember who was on my side...

 

[kensho1976]

Sorry, I meant to say I was on the other side arguing _against_ you. Yes, it's your friendly neighborhood spiderthief.

 

[tylermalan]

You're supposed to be FRIENDLY! Friendly does not imply against!