Touch Spells, Regular Melee Attacks, and Critical Hits

[gnfnrf]

A touch spell can discharge as a critical hit, with a threat range of 20 and a multiplier of x2.

While holding the charge on a touch spell, you can attack with a natural weapon, discharging the spell and dealing regular damage if the attack hits.

If the natural weapon attack is a critical hit, is the spell a critical hit as well?

If the natural weapon's threat range or multiplier is enhanced by feats or abilities, does the spell benefit from the increased critical possibility?

If the spell is being delivered through a manufactured weapon by some ability, does anything change?

Lastly, if it is a spell like ability, does that matter?

Some example scenarios.

A lizardfolk cleric casts inflict light wounds, holds the charge, then claws, rolls a 20 and confirms. How much damage does the inflict light wounds do?

The same cleric at much higher level takes Improved Critical (claw). How much damage does the inflict light wounds do on a confirmed natural 20? Does it change on a confirmed natural 19?

A warlock with Hideous Blow fights with a greataxe and criticals. Is the blast damage tripled? Doubled? Unaffected? How about fighting with a rapier? All criticals are doubled? Only those on a natural 20? None?

I've been puzzling over this one, and I can't figure it out.

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gnfnrf

 

[frog8986]

If the natural weapon attack is a critical hit, is the spell a critical hit as well?

what I would do, is have the player roll two attacks, one for the nature weapon and one for the spell, the spell attack role would just be made to check to see if the spell crits.

If the natural weapon's threat range or multiplier is enhanced by feats or abilities, does the spell benefit from the increased critical possibility?

no, thats why I would have two roles

If the spell is being delivered through a manufactured weapon by some ability, does anything change?

they way I would do it, no.

Lastly, if it is a spell like ability, does that matter?

nope it shouldn't

 

[TheGogmagog]

If the natural weapon attack is a critical hit, is the spell a critical hit as well?

No. The natural attack and modifiers are doubled, the spell is not. Thats what you trade for trying to add 1d4+3 to a shocking grasp. I believe this was covered by a faq.

 

[Hypersmurf]

No. The natural attack and modifiers are doubled, the spell is not. Thats what you trade for trying to add 1d4+3 to a shocking grasp. I believe this was covered by a faq.

Complete Arcane.

-Hyp.

 

[gnfnrf]

I can't find anything about this in the FAQ or Complete Arcane (the section on spells and criticals on p 85 doesn't mention anything that I could tell.) Do either of you have a specific citation or quotation?

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gnfnrf

 

[Hypersmurf]

I can't find anything about this in the FAQ or Complete Arcane (the section on spells and criticals on p 85 doesn't mention anything that I could tell.) Do either of you have a specific citation or quotation?

CArc p73. It's found under the description of the interaction of the IUS feat with touch spells.

-Hyp.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Bah, I read the paragraph above that but then gave up. and went searching the faq. Never doubt HyperSmurf.

 

[gnfnrf]

CArc p73. It's found under the description of the interaction of the IUS feat with touch spells.

Thank you.

I take it, then, that you believe that this covers all other forms of melee attacks to deliver touch spells, such as natural weapons and Hideous Blow, as well, even though it only explicitly mentions IUS.

Is there a particular reason for this, or are you just extrapolating from the only information available?

If it didn't work that way, do you think there would be a balance problem? I'm mainly interested in Hideous Blow in particular.

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gnfnrf

 

[Hypersmurf]

Is there a particular reason for this, or are you just extrapolating from the only information available?

Basically, yeah. The other thing is that it fits with the existing rule about bonus damage dice.

If you crit someone with a flaming longsword sneak attack, the base damage is doubled, but the bonus damage dice - the +1d6 fire damage and the +Xd6 sneak attack damage - are not.

If you crit someone with a Shocking Grasp, your Xd8 is doubled. If you crit someone with a claw attack that's delivering a Shocking Grasp, the spell is effectively bonus d8s to your attack, and so won't be doubled.

I don't think there's a printed rule that states what to do when critting with a spell delivered with a claw attack, or with a spell-storing weapon... but the two closest rules from which to make a judgement seem to be those two, and they both point to "multiply weapon damage and not spell damage".

-Hyp.