where exactly do tough heros fit in a modern setting? all of the archetypes mentioned in d20 modern would fit better as either strong or fast heroes with high con. im going to be using a variant similar to the grimngritty system and the tough hero doesnt seem to make much sense.
-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
tough heros in d20 modern
- Thread starter dildinon
- Start date
Roudi
First Post
Tough heroes are guys who can take their punches; they can take a licking and keep on ticking, as it were. They don't necessarily have to be strong or fast; just extraordinarily resilient.
The character Rocky is an example of this - he doesn't win fights because he's stronger or faster, but only because he can outlast the other guy. Homer Simpson might also fall into this category (though that's a bit of a stretch) Finally, the Boondock Saints certainly started out as Tough Heroes.
The character Rocky is an example of this - he doesn't win fights because he's stronger or faster, but only because he can outlast the other guy. Homer Simpson might also fall into this category (though that's a bit of a stretch) Finally, the Boondock Saints certainly started out as Tough Heroes.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
dildinon said:
Coming up with concepts for Tough heroes isn't that hard, IMO. Guards should take levels in Tough - Tough gives you Spot as a class skill (unlike DnD fighters, who make terrible guards), and having a high BAB and damage isn't useful is someone catches you by surprise and uses Knockout Punch on you. Such a great feat.
Boxers should take levels of Tough. After all, Stamina (KO'd for only half the time), Second Wind and Remain Conscious are all great assets in the ring. So should bodyguards, for fairly obvious reasons. Knights should take it (you're already wearing heavy armor, why not go all out? And Ride is a Tough skill).
Bikers should take Tough levels. Not only is Drive a Tough class skill, but the stereotypical biker is kind of tubby anyway. Most wouldn't have Fast levels. Besides, they're pretty good brawlers and Tough heroes get the brawling feats as bonus feats.
Tough makes a great complement to the Strong class, too. If you're playing a melee warrior (especially in a D20 Past-style game) the combo works very well.
A wilderness expert could easily use any physical class plus Dedicated, but in many cases Tough is the best one to use.
IMO Tough heroes have superior skills to Strong heroes (Drive, Intimidate and Spot are key, IMO) and their talents are also really good (damage reduction applies to both melee and ranged combat, Second Wind is sweet, Remain Conscious is sweet, etc). On the other hand, a Strong hero who keeps advancing his Strength score is going to melee better than a Tough hero - he has Melee Smash and his total attack bonus is going to be higher.
Theophagos
First Post
Well, you're somewhat right: Probably anyone of us can come up with a couple of movie heroes, that are either entirely strong or fast heroes, but thinking of a tough hero with no other class-levels is much harder. That is because the tough hero is all about endurance and suffering - would you like to see an action movie in that the hero gets beating after beating and wins because he gets up after that? At least it's not my cup of tea
BUT many heroes have at least some levels of tough hero:
- Tyler Durden (Brat Pitt in "Fight Club") In the scene in that the owner of the cellar tries to drive away the fight club, he beats up Tyler - "Have you got it?!" - "No." Beaten up again. "Did you get it now?" - "Eeerm... No." Finally the owner is scared because Tyler is bleeding like a pig, doing nothing other then takeing the punishment and still not going down.
- John McClane (Bruce Willis in "Die Hard") Practically the whole movie he has to suffer, is bleeding, gets beaten etc. Maybe he is the best candidate for an entierly tough hero.
- Clint Eastwood in many of his movies (Dirty Harry, Dollars, Coogans Bluff, etc.) He takes a serve beating, gets up again, this time angry, and finishes the bad guys.
- Many more: Django (Django), Sgt. Martin Riggs (Lethal Weapon), Sgt. Elias Grodin (Platoon), hell, even the Forrest Gump (Forrest Gump) is about suffering and endurance.
Theophagos
BUT many heroes have at least some levels of tough hero:
- Tyler Durden (Brat Pitt in "Fight Club") In the scene in that the owner of the cellar tries to drive away the fight club, he beats up Tyler - "Have you got it?!" - "No." Beaten up again. "Did you get it now?" - "Eeerm... No." Finally the owner is scared because Tyler is bleeding like a pig, doing nothing other then takeing the punishment and still not going down.
- John McClane (Bruce Willis in "Die Hard") Practically the whole movie he has to suffer, is bleeding, gets beaten etc. Maybe he is the best candidate for an entierly tough hero.
- Clint Eastwood in many of his movies (Dirty Harry, Dollars, Coogans Bluff, etc.) He takes a serve beating, gets up again, this time angry, and finishes the bad guys.
- Many more: Django (Django), Sgt. Martin Riggs (Lethal Weapon), Sgt. Elias Grodin (Platoon), hell, even the Forrest Gump (Forrest Gump) is about suffering and endurance.
Theophagos
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Mr. Stamper from Tomorrow Never Dies.
Boris the Bullet Dodger and that "gypsy" boxer too - although both were probably multi-classed. Well, maybe... Boris didn't seem to have any Fast levels.
"The Bride" from Kill Bill.
Boris the Bullet Dodger and that "gypsy" boxer too - although both were probably multi-classed. Well, maybe... Boris didn't seem to have any Fast levels.
"The Bride" from Kill Bill.
Pretty much what other folks have said. The best way to think about most characters is not as them having one class, but as class combinations, like the archetypes in the back of the handbook.
Strong/Tough: A bouncer, guard, or bodyguard who relies on hitting things hard and taking punishment.
Fast/Tough: Any athlete who relies on moving fast and taking punishment rather than hitting things with accuracy. A football running back, for example. As a criminal, a drug runner or second-story man. Historically, a messenger who was less about fighting off bad guys and more about outrunning them and running himself to death, if necessary, to get the information to his commander.
Smart/Tough: From Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Chief O'Brien. A former grunt who's become a good engineer. In the show, he's seen taking some ugly hits and still going. He's not the best fighter in the group, but he can take his licks and get the job done.
Dedicated/Tough: Any hero who lives out in the wilderness is probably this or something close to it. Living off the land, making his way as a hunter, tracker, or survivalist who can hike all day, ignore minor scrapes, and laugh despite ice-cold water or frigid night air... In a more civilized setting, he makes a good private investigator -- not a combat machine, but he can figure out the crime and survive the inevitable billy club to the head he gets two-thirds of the way through the story when the big twist shows up. Your average "Sam Spade"-type private eye is probably Dedicated/Tough. Worldly and hard enough to take a few punches.
Charismatic/Tough: As an athlete, I'd peg this guy as a defensive tackle in the secondary -- the kind of guy who doesn't overpower the opponent, but talks about the other guy's mama enough to rattle his nerves and throw him off his game. In the military, this is a great drill sergeant -- he doesn't outshoot and outfight everybody. He goes on 20-mile runs and then does push-ups for an hour, dragging the team behind, yelling at them until they begin to turn into the troops they need to be, never realizing how well Ol' Sarge is manipulating them. Sarge might even have some pull with the higher-ups, unofficially, and he's seen enough action and survived enough ugly operations to stare down any green Lieutenant who thinks he can order the sergeant around.
Strong/Tough: A bouncer, guard, or bodyguard who relies on hitting things hard and taking punishment.
Fast/Tough: Any athlete who relies on moving fast and taking punishment rather than hitting things with accuracy. A football running back, for example. As a criminal, a drug runner or second-story man. Historically, a messenger who was less about fighting off bad guys and more about outrunning them and running himself to death, if necessary, to get the information to his commander.
Smart/Tough: From Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Chief O'Brien. A former grunt who's become a good engineer. In the show, he's seen taking some ugly hits and still going. He's not the best fighter in the group, but he can take his licks and get the job done.
Dedicated/Tough: Any hero who lives out in the wilderness is probably this or something close to it. Living off the land, making his way as a hunter, tracker, or survivalist who can hike all day, ignore minor scrapes, and laugh despite ice-cold water or frigid night air... In a more civilized setting, he makes a good private investigator -- not a combat machine, but he can figure out the crime and survive the inevitable billy club to the head he gets two-thirds of the way through the story when the big twist shows up. Your average "Sam Spade"-type private eye is probably Dedicated/Tough. Worldly and hard enough to take a few punches.
Charismatic/Tough: As an athlete, I'd peg this guy as a defensive tackle in the secondary -- the kind of guy who doesn't overpower the opponent, but talks about the other guy's mama enough to rattle his nerves and throw him off his game. In the military, this is a great drill sergeant -- he doesn't outshoot and outfight everybody. He goes on 20-mile runs and then does push-ups for an hour, dragging the team behind, yelling at them until they begin to turn into the troops they need to be, never realizing how well Ol' Sarge is manipulating them. Sarge might even have some pull with the higher-ups, unofficially, and he's seen enough action and survived enough ugly operations to stare down any green Lieutenant who thinks he can order the sergeant around.
sinmissing
First Post
Riddick, Hulk, David Carradine in Mean Streets (vague reference, but accurate), I'llost more later
sinmissing
First Post
Good one, Klaus.
Don't forget the Diehard guy. He goes back into combat after stepping on glass, ouch!
Homer Simpson.
99% of all Clint Eastwood Characters
Don't forget the Diehard guy. He goes back into combat after stepping on glass, ouch!
Homer Simpson.
99% of all Clint Eastwood Characters
Similar Threads
