• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

Town Generator - Final(?) GUI only Beta 0.22

towngen said:


I'll tell you what. After I finish the program, I can license the source code over to you to modify for a modern & future version. Then you can keep all the profits on it. Interested? That offer goes for all the people that want Mac versions also. :)

Walter



and add it to the already HUGE list of stuff I am working on that is supposed to be done? hardly. If all we have to do is replace every instance of GP with CR it wouldn't be a problem. Can you have different modes where you have the exact same screeen just different title headings?
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Leopold said:

and add it to the already HUGE list of stuff I am working on that is supposed to be done? hardly. If all we have to do is replace every instance of GP with CR it wouldn't be a problem.

That was exactly my point. It's not just as simple as exchanging a name here and there.

Leopold said:

Can you have different modes where you have the exact same screeen just different title headings?

So I should just rename churchs to "Hospitals & Social Work Centers" and wizards to "Electronic Gadget Users"? It just wouldn't work. All the logic I'm using to determine the number of things would fall apart. That goes for every category of everything. It would be a complete rewrite from the ground up.

Granted it might be possible to create a more general purpose town creation engine that loaded tables of names and randomized up a nice mix for you, but that wouldn't be able to create the kind of town I have in mind for fantasy worlds. You can't just rename "provisioners" with "Walmarts" and expect the town to come out right. A modern economy works entirely different than a fantasy medieval economy with magic in it.

Perhaps some of you aren't understanding what is going on behind the scenes in my program. Each randomized thing is based on multiple variables that tweak the probabilities slightly. That is why the order of the screens is important. Only something defined on either a previous or the same screen can effect a randomization on any particular screen. The inter-relationship of what affects what is hard coded, not loaded from a table. Trying to create something where those relationships could be swapped out would be exponentially more difficult. It's hard enough trying to find the proper coefficients for a 4 dimensional probability field that half the time I'm already swapping that out for multiple discrete 2 dimensional probability equations (ie. use a select case statement to define ranges for 2 of the input variables, and have a completely different equation with the other 2 variables in each of the cases).
 

TMI...cannot fathom complex differential economic equations...


That last statement sound like there is allot of work trying to figure out the exact economic, political, and fundamental workings of a society. No way am i qualified to do this nor would begin to fathom howto.

Can anyone enlighten me?
 

First I'll try to explain what I said, then I'll try to relate it to town making.

Suppose that the probability of something depends on 2 other things. Lets represent those 2 things as A and B. The probability we are calculating will be called X.

Now imagine a graph where 2 axis are labeled A and B. Let's call left/right on the graph to be A and lets call towards-us/away-from-us on the graph to be B. The height of the graph will be called X. For every point (A,B), there is a height of the graph X. This graph is many times called a surface plot because you can visualize it as a surface. Imagine a sandbox on top of graph paper. There is a distance in squares left/right and forward/back. At every distance, there is a height of the sand.

Thus I can figure out a formula, and plug A & B into it and get out an X. Then I roll a die and see if I'm equal to or less than X. If so, then yes that feature or attribute is present. Otherwise it's missing (in a simple boolean case).

Now lets relate that to a town, before we go on to 4 dimensions.

Suppose that the richer a town is, the more likely that they have spent the time and money to build city walls. This is variable A. Town wealth.

Suppose that the bigger a town is, the more likely that they have city walls because they have more people contributing money & time, and also because it's been there longer so they had more of a chance to do it. This is variable B. Town size.

Lets call X the % chance for town walls to be present.

Thus: X = f(A,B) where f() is a formula (technically called a function) that I came up with to give me the right answers.

So I take the size and wealth, plug them into the formula and get a number back. Now I roll a die (randomize a number). If RandomNumber <= X then Presto! There are town walls.

But now suppose that people who live in a very civilized area are less likely to spend that time and money than people who live near the wilderness. Crap. Now we have another variable. Lets, call it C.

Thus now it's: X = f(A,B,C)

But now I can't just visualize that easily, like before. Since you can't make a sand table to represent it. So now it's much harder to come up with the function f.

Suppose that the function is: X = f(A,B,C,D)

Now I'm pulling my hair out. That's hard to figure out!

So what I do is if both C and D are low, then I use one f(A,B). If they are both high, then I use another f(A,B). If one is high and the other is low, then I use another f(A,B), etc...

So I make 3 easy functions instead of 1 really hard function. This isn't as good as a real 4 dimensional function though. Because now there are only 2 values of C that matter. Is it high or low? Same for D.

Does that make sense?

Now consider the f(A,B,C) that comes up with the proper (just a guess on my part) chance of a town militia being present. Will that be the same f(A,B,C) for a volunteer police force being present in d20 modern? Most likely not. That's what I was getting at.

Now there are problems with this system. Sometimes you roll a 1 three times in a row and you get some wacky result. Such as a large rich city in the wilderness with no city wall. So you gotta try to limit and bounds check things also.

Is the formula that I came up with to create the number of churches correct? I don't know. But after much playing with it, it seems like it's putting out reasonable numbers (to me). That's one of the other things I wanted feedback on with this beta. So far I haven't gotten ANY answers on those subjects. Possibly because those are the really hard questions. But since I haven't gotten any complaints either, I assume that most people are happy with what it's putting out.

Walter
 

I'll be taking a closer look at the way the numbers come up tomorrow. And I'll be reading through your above mentioned formula as well, since I don't like reading long messages on the computer screen.:)
 



Anything still happening on this thread/program?

I'm very interested in it, and would like to know what if anything is still going on...
 

Given that the last post was from over 5 years ago, I'm guessing not.

I remember when this subject first came up - hard to believe it was in 2002!
 

I see your point...

Does anyone know if the program has been published yet as a working version? It's a really cool piece of work, and I'd like to use it... Anyone still in contact with Walter (TownGen)?
 

Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top