D&D 5E Toxicity in the Fandom

[Hussar]

Gate keeping.
True Scotsman.
Positivity only.

We could continue, but it's a toxic road.

See, I'm frankly baffled how being positive only is possibly toxic? People who love something, are really passionate about it and talk about how fantastic something is, is, to me anyway, the exact opposite of toxic.

But, I totally agree with the other two.

 

[Older Beholder]

There was a boycott star wars campaign the moment Boyega appeared in the trailer for The Force Awakens, which was very obviously based on the colour of his skin and nothing to do with the writing. This is what people talk about when they mention the toxic nature of fandom.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

For reference, the Boyega interview is here:

John Boyega: 'I’m the only cast member whose experience of Star Wars was based on their race'

In his first interview since finishing Star Wars and that unguarded address from a Hyde Park stage, he explains how both platforms inspired him to make a stand, but for very different reasons.

www.gq-magazine.co.uk

Here’s a quote-

I’m the only cast member who had their own unique experience of that franchise based on their race,” he says, holding my gaze. “Let’s just leave it like that. It makes you angry with a process like that. It makes you much more militant; it changes you. Because you realise, ‘I got given this opportunity but I’m in an industry that wasn’t even ready for me.’ Nobody else in the cast had people saying they were going to boycott the movie because [they were in it]. Nobody else had the uproar and death threats sent to their Instagram DMs and social media, saying, ‘Black this and black that and you shouldn’t be a Stormtrooper.’ Nobody else had that experience. But yet people are surprised that I’m this way. That’s my frustration.

Now, in fairness he also talks about how it was frustrating to see his character (like other POC characters in tent-pole movies) get marginalized, but I fail to see how anyone can read that interview and come away thinking, “Hey, all those people complaining about his casting that made his life miserable? They totally had a point!”

 

[Hussar]

/snip

But what I'm saying here and the point I'm trying to make is I don't think that's a remotely fair take on how the edition wars played out at EnWorld. It wasn't that I was jumping into every positive 4e discussions that was going on or even many of the positive 4e discussions to crap on people's fun. I agree that there would have been no point. Heck, I remember jumping into 4e discussions to help people design for the edition - the Thardizun thread for example - even as I at the same time was increasingly certain this edition was not for me.
/snip

Sorry, that wasn't clear.

I wasn't saying that you were doing this. But, it was certainly going on. Again, why do you think that they had to silo off certain topics just to contain the acrimony?

And, it was hardly limited to En World. If there was even the remotest hint of a positive story about 4e in the mainstream (or even less mainstream) press, all you had to do was look at the comments thread. Two or three people saying how it was great to see D&D in things like Newsweek, and then fifteen thousand comments about how 4e was the worst thing ever and destroying the hobby.

It was never ceasing. It never stopped. Not for a moment. Not until D&D Next was announced and the self same people couldn't help but do donuts on the grave of 4e. To the point where you STILL, what, over a decade later, cannot begin to talk about 4e without having the same crap come up. The level of toxicity was unbelievable.

 

[Scribe]

See, I'm frankly baffled how being positive only is possibly toxic? People who love something, are really passionate about it and talk about how fantastic something is, is, to me anyway, the exact opposite of toxic.

But, I totally agree with the other two.

If one is only positive, and will only allow positive commentary, and will shout down anyone that disagrees, or offers even a hint of going against the grain?

Yeah, "positivity only" is still toxic, especially if you get a few of them going around promoting or liking anything positive, while disparaging others. People who celebrate when others are dissatisfied?

I mean it happens around here, and yes it's toxic.

 

[Zardnaar]

If one is only positive, and will only allow positive commentary, and will shout down anyone that disagrees, or offers even a hint of going against the grain?

Yeah, "positivity only" is still toxic, especially if you get a few of them going around promoting or liking anything positive, while disparaging others. People who celebrate when others are dissatisfied?

I mean it happens around here, and yes it's toxic.

Can also be annoying or come across as shilling.

5E is a mixed bag quality wise just like every other edition.

 

[a.everett1287]

Can also be annoying or come across as shilling.

5E is a mixed bag quality wise just like every other edition.

Everything is always a mixed bag of quality because different aspects of a thing mean more or less to different people.

The best way to avoid any toxicity is to stop trying to convince someone your view is better or right. (This isn't directed at you, specifically)

 

[Zardnaar]

Everything is always a mixed bag of quality because different aspects of a thing mean more or less to different people.

The best way to avoid any toxicity is to stop trying to convince someone your view is better or right. (This isn't directed at you, specifically)

I don't real care if people have different opinions than me. Nor if I have eoffended someone.

I try not to make things personal either from posters or creators, actors etc.

 

[Umbran]

Fair point re: Carolina Reaper, but come on re: Frank's, that's just insulting, man!

Franks is a perfectly serviceable source of flavor. More on that below.

We have that over here too. It's an absolute joke of a hot sauce even if it goes well with certain things. It's 450 SHU. Even Cholula, which is barely hot, is 1000 SHU (I have both in my fridge right now).

Okay, so, let's go there, shall we?

I am sure you are aware that the original Scoville Heat Unit was a subjective assessment. And, even with modern direct measuring of chemical concentration, the human experience of heat is still subjective - how you assess it will depend on the palate of the individual.

Of specific note - if you constantly bombard your mouth with hotter and hotter flavors, you become desensitized, and need more and more capsaicinoids to get the same sensation.

Many of the peppers used to meet the needs of those who have desensitized themselves to the heat actually don't have a lot of other flavor of their own besides heat. Notable exceptions, the Habanero and Scotch Bonnet, have a decent fruity flavor... that will be totally overwhelmed and undetectable if you haven't desensitized yourself to the heat. The pepper is nigh useless to those who haven't been taking in a diet of higher and higher levels of capsaicinoids.

Franks is a general purpose sauce, with a pretty decent flavor, besides its heat. It is a good product for people who haven't had a constant diet of heat. This probably aligns pretty well with WotC products.

Tabasco is well-known to be hotter, but has little other flavor to it. Sauces hotter than that are largely useless except to the officionado.

 

[Zardnaar]

Franks is a perfectly serviceable source of flavor. More on that below.



Okay, so, let's go there, shall we?

I am sure you are aware that the original Scoville Heat Unit was a subjective assessment. And, even with modern direct measuring of chemical concentration, the human experience of heat is still subjective - how you assess it will depend on the palate of the individual.

Of specific note - if you constantly bombard your mouth with hotter and hotter flavors, you become desensitized, and need more and more capsaicinoids to get the same sensation.

Many of the peppers used to meet the needs of those who have desensitized themselves to the heat actually don't have a lot of other flavor of their own besides heat. Notable exceptions, the Habanero and Scotch Bonnet, have a decent fruity flavor... that will be totally overwhelmed and undetectable if you haven't desensitized yourself to the heat. The pepper is nigh useless to those who haven't been taking in a diet of higher and higher levels of capsaicinoids.

Franks is a general purpose sauce, with a pretty decent flavor, besides its heat. It is a good product for people who haven't had a constant diet of heat. This probably aligns pretty well with WotC products.

Tabasco is well-known to be hotter, but has little other flavor to it. Sauces hotter than that are largely useless except to the officionado.

This it also depends on quantities consumed.

A nice gradual heat build up with flavour beats sheer heat which basically has little flavour.

I can go hotter but it's pointless a hot vindaloo or hot sauce on a lamb Turkish kebab is my happy place.

The really hot stuff is often " look how tough I am I can handle this".