D&D 5E Toxicity in the Fandom

[pemerton]

Sorry, that wasn't clear.

I wasn't saying that you were doing this. But, it was certainly going on. Again, why do you think that they had to silo off certain topics just to contain the acrimony?

And, it was hardly limited to En World. If there was even the remotest hint of a positive story about 4e in the mainstream (or even less mainstream) press, all you had to do was look at the comments thread. Two or three people saying how it was great to see D&D in things like Newsweek, and then fifteen thousand comments about how 4e was the worst thing ever and destroying the hobby.

It was never ceasing. It never stopped. Not for a moment. Not until D&D Next was announced and the self same people couldn't help but do donuts on the grave of 4e. To the point where you STILL, what, over a decade later, cannot begin to talk about 4e without having the same crap come up. The level of toxicity was unbelievable.

Here's a paradigm of the point you make: D&D 4E - Pemertonian Scene-Framing; A Good Approach to D&D 4e

 

[Hussar]

If one is only positive, and will only allow positive commentary, and will shout down anyone that disagrees, or offers even a hint of going against the grain?

Yeah, "positivity only" is still toxic, especially if you get a few of them going around promoting or liking anything positive, while disparaging others. People who celebrate when others are dissatisfied?

I mean it happens around here, and yes it's toxic.

But, again, you're not quite talking about the same thing.

After all, you added "disparaging others" and "celebrate when others are dissatisfied". Which is very different thing than simply being positive about something.

But, in the end, it's all about the specific situation. I've so very rarely seen anyone being shouted down who is making an actual, real criticism rather than appeals to popularity, trying to justify their perspective by appealing to the unknown masses. When people have an actual, real criticism, something they can back up with actual, real examples, then generally the conversation will go back and forth, even if the disagreement is strong. Heck, 200+ pages of halfling threads shows that.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with disagreement. What is wrong is unrelentingly negative people who hate every single thing that comes out and repeatedly shout it from the rooftops in an unending stream of negativity.

Give me people who are positive and passionate about the things they like over the hate-watchers who only want to ram their views down everyone's throats any day of the week.

 

[Zardnaar]

But, again, you're not quite talking about the same thing.

After all, you added "disparaging others" and "celebrate when others are dissatisfied". Which is very different thing than simply being positive about something.

But, in the end, it's all about the specific situation. I've so very rarely seen anyone being shouted down who is making an actual, real criticism rather than appeals to popularity, trying to justify their perspective by appealing to the unknown masses. When people have an actual, real criticism, something they can back up with actual, real examples, then generally the conversation will go back and forth, even if the disagreement is strong. Heck, 200+ pages of halfling threads shows that.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with disagreement. What is wrong is unrelentingly negative people who hate every single thing that comes out and repeatedly shout it from the rooftops in an unending stream of negativity.

Give me people who are positive and passionate about the things they like over the hate-watchers who only want to ram their views down everyone's throats any day of the week.

If someone's always positive though there's not much point in talking to them as you already know what they're gonna say.

You could get the same effect with a rubber stamp.

If you're talking about product why would you listen as not every product is that good but if someone is always positive putting the best spin possible on a turkey........

That's assuming they're just positive all the time without I'm right you're wrong subtext.

At best it's boring. Same as always negative even if they very polite about negative.

 

[Hussar]

There’s a significant difference between boring and toxic though. Lots of people are boring. Hell ask my students. .

But being boring or predictable isn’t toxic.

 

[Medic]

See, I'm frankly baffled how being positive only is possibly toxic?

"Toxic positivity" is a fixation on positive thinking even in situations that are distinctly bleak or undesirable. It's telling a parent that witnessed the death of their child "Don't be so sad, you can still have another one!" Or callously saying "Hey, it could always be worse, buddy!" To someone who lost their home to an earthquake.

This attitude makes for an unhealthy echo chamber wherein legitimate grievances are actively suppressed. To employ an example relevant to this discussion; I wouldn't be allowed to criticize the infamous "caster superiority" phenomenon that is often vigorously discussed in these spaces, because that's negativity, and actually, it's a good thing that the game works that way, mmmkay?

 

[Hussar]

But we do discuss caster superiority. As you say it is vigorously discussed. So how is any conversation being shut down?

Now as to the other examples, again that’s a bit far afield. Someone gushing over their favourite game is somewhat different than telling someone that the death of their child is okay because you can have another.

I’m rather struggling to see how people being passionate about a hobby they really enjoy is toxic. It would be toxic to say that the game was designed by people who hate DnD just because it went in a direction you or I didn’t happen to like. That’s toxic to me. But someone telling me how Level Up is hitting all the right notes for what they want out of a game is kinda the opposite of toxic AFAIC.

 

[Zardnaar]

But we do discuss caster superiority. As you say it is vigorously discussed. So how is any conversation being shut down?

Now as to the other examples, again that’s a bit far afield. Someone gushing over their favourite game is somewhat different than telling someone that the death of their child is okay because you can have another.

I’m rather struggling to see how people being passionate about a hobby they really enjoy is toxic. It would be toxic to say that the game was designed by people who hate DnD just because it went in a direction you or I didn’t happen to like. That’s toxic to me. But someone telling me how Level Up is hitting all the right notes for what they want out of a game is kinda the opposite of toxic AFAIC.

It's a fine line between always positive (often annoying) and always positive (always right) or always positive dissent not allowed.

If enough people do it it's groupthink/one true wayism.

It's like having a beer that's nice vs knocking back ten of them and making a douche canoe of yourself.

 

[MichaelSomething]

"The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginningless time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light."

 

[James Gasik]

I feel like James Gasik wasn't asking for a demonstration.

Most forum threads mutate into something completely different; apparently people have a lot to talk about!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I just read an article about diablo 4! The author writes about tgat everything he likes but he is even offended by the possibility of buying cosmetic items, because his time put into getting them by grinding is devalued...
... i tell you what: no it is not.

Most people are happy just playing the game. Some have more time than money and some have more money then time.

The target audience has changed a bit. While 20 years ago, games mainly targeted poor students mainly, now people who have kids and a regular job must be kept in mind too.

So just look at your peer group and enjoy that you can play games as you like and that there are games out for everyone.

You don't like short seperate adventures? No? I don't like them too much too. But looking at my and my friend's available time, those are sometimes very useful to us.

So why is there so much toxity? Because people are totaly egoistic and envious and think people who want different things take away what is theirs, not realizing that if you don't try to get new audiences (in the case of star wars, forgotten realms, marvel etc...) who don't knlw every little detail, you lose out in the long run.
Gatekeeping is the problem.