Training and time

[vturlough]

Greetings!

Okay, I am about to start the new campaign, actually I still have a few weeks darnit, and I am trying to figure out what to do with training and time.

What I have found, and obviously some of this is in how I run the game, is that within six months of game time, the 1st level PCs are already 12th level, which is pretty good, imo.

I do have down time to let the PCs make items, relax, and in general let time pass or otherwise take a break. Even with that, things characters advance quickly.

And it isn't me giving more XP than I should! Besides the standard XP of fighting, traps, encounters, etc., I usually only have three or four story awards in the campaign.

How long does it take for people to advance in your own campaigns? How many levels per month? year? etc. How much game time passes during this time?

I am tying this all in with training because I can't decide about training and if I should use it. (This from a person who was in training yesterday and is so again today.) While I like the idea of training, there are things about it that aren't appealing. I am hoping to get ideas from others as to what they think.

Training

Good -
1) Refocus and learn the basics. By getting training, the person is refocusing on the foundation for what they do. This always helps.
2) Cement what XP has taught a person. After you play around with something for a while, then you get formal training on it to find out the little things you missed as well as other items that you might not have done yourself. (I do this all the time in programming. I jump in and just do something and then later I go to the basic classes and still learn a lot. Even after using whatever for a long time!)
3) Role playing how PCs learned skills and feats. This is always good.
4) Allows role playing of contacts and good back story ideas. Again, this gives more depth, more contacts to the characters, which I think is good.

Bad -
1) After a certain point, I don't know that training helps. (I have to ask my wife on this, as this is what she does.) In other words, after you are already an expert, there is no one to turn to, to teach you.
2) For a 20th century analogy, training is usually less than a week on any particular subject. And that usually covers a good amount of what is needed. Even two or three days can cover a topic pretty well.
3) I think that experience with a subject teaches us more than training. It takes a person hearing something seven to twenty times before it sinks in during training or most lectures or self taught learning. I don't think it takes that long during the trial and error that is life.

Again, I think both is best, training and xp, but at what point is XP doing more than training ever will?

Just some musings. Comments anyone?

Thanks!

turlough

 

[Crothian]

I like training. THe closest to adventurers we have these days are military personal and they train and train and train. Even the elite ones. They don't stop training, no matter how good they are.

As for leveling you should ask how many gaming hours it takes. For it takes us about two sessions to gain a level, but that's about 16+ hours of gaming and that seems to be about right for us.

 

[poilbrun]

The characters in the campaigns I DM usually advance very fast, but it is mainly due to the fact that the adentures are mainly fight-centered. I think the players level about once every 4-5 hours. On the other hand, with the other two DM I play with (who both play in the campaign I DM), I believe we're advancing about once every 20 hours (approximately once a month since we play one 4-5 hours long session of the three campaigns a week).

I guess the time it takes to level mainly depends on what the players and DM want. It's kind of fun to see that the players who like to advance slowly when they DM like to advance fast when they play. In game, however, I tend to have training so that the evolution of the characters feels a bit more real. The various adventures I run, either dungeon-crawling or wilderness exploring, take seldom more than a week to be completed. I've thus decided to make training necessary. It takes one week per level to train. I usually cap the time to 10 weeks, so that the characters do not have to wait too long before going back on an adventure (10 weeks is already more than 2 months, which mean the players sometimes decide not to train so that they can finish the adventure when they need to rather than waiting and not knowing how things will be two months later).

In the campaigns I play with the other DMs, we do not train specifically but rather use the version described for the new spells gained by a wizard: while the wizard is off-stage, he's making some research and thus learns two new spells at each level. We have decided that the characters are thus training when they're off-stage and that we do not need to spend time specifically to train.

It all boils down to the fact whether you want a fast-paced campaign or not. If the events of the campaign have to take place in a very short period of time, then training would only slow things down and make the campaign less real (that's how many novels are written, even those who are based on d&d). If the story doesn't depend on time, however, you can decide that each time they advance a level, the character have to spend time training. That can be useful if you have a recurring villain that has to go up in level at the same rate as the characters.

Hope this helps!

 

[vturlough]

Training ideas

In general, I like the idea of training. I think people have some good ideas on it. Perhaps, though, things like this need to be passive and accounted for, only taking up game time, instead of being a focus?

For example, while a week per level sounds reasonable, think about it. Even capping at 10 weeks, that is almost equal to a college semester! And I assume we are talking about 8 hours a day, six days a (seven day) week?

I don't know about anybody else, but I don't think I could keep my attention span for that long! That is huge!

What about this?

First of all, a character advances when they make it to the next level, if they fulfill the requirements. Part of those requirements, then, are to have CEUs (Okay, modern term but I don't know what else to say. CEU = Continuing education unit) for the next level. The CEUs are as follows.

"Low Level Training":
Must train for one day per level advanced. Must do this with a another character, NPC or PC, who is at least 2 levels higher in the class that advanced. Do this to 10th level.

"High Level Training":
Must take one day per level off to do research, planning and general reflection over experience gained. Can be by talking to peers, doing research, scribing scrolls and making stuff, teaching others, etc. Max at 20 days.

So, a person advances to 6th level. Before they can advance to 7th level, they must get some form of training that totals 7 days. This can be whatever the DM wants. Maybe some training is fighting, some is practice, etc.

The "low level training" is more structured and must be with someone at least two levels higher. The "high level training" is on their own. At this point, they are good enough, and probably rare enough, that they just have to figure it out on their own.

I suggest this to allow for training to be a continual process rather than all at once. It could also allow for overlap. If some characters advance and then have to research the next bad guy, this could count as training.

Again, my reason for doing this is to allow for time to ponder what they have learned, have it take some time but not an inordinate amount and to make it a bit more realistic while still being passive. This also allows for them to keep adventuring in the face of an impending doom, like a prophecy, while still advancing and preparing for the next level.

Essentially, a lot of this is doing what they say that wizards do in "down time", which is why they get two free spells per level, and making it a bit more structured.

What do you think?

Thanks!

turlough

 

[Crothian]

I think that looks pretty good. It's nice and flexible allowing Pcs more options to get it done. At the same time it's training, and fulfills that for the characters.

Personally, I like to bribe PCs with training. If they get a proffgesional trainer they get a few extra skill points, or maybe even a weak feat. THey all have to do this to get this, that way there is balance and equal fairness with all the PCs.

 

[vturlough]

Good idea!

Crothian:

I like that idea! Training give a "weak" feat. What are some good feats for that?

Did they ever make it official that a feat that affects only one skill is +3? I know it was talked about by Monte Cook.

What if traning gave a feat for a +1 to a skill? Or half affects, if possible? (Lesser alertness that gives +1 to either spot or listen?)

Bonus skill points are another good example. What did you do? Just an extra 2 or 3?

Maybe this can allow some stacking as well. For example, maybe the fighter trains with the rogue as they adventure and you allow the fighter to have a skill or two from rogue as cross class. Then, if he continues training, he can get bonus skill points to put them in those skills. (Indeed, perhaps bonus skill points from training are the ONLY ways he could improve his skill?)

Good ideas!

turlough

 

[Crothian]

Re: Good idea!

I like that idea! Training give a "weak" feat. What are some good feats for that?

Did they ever make it official that a feat that affects only one skill is +3? I know it was talked about by Monte Cook.

Bonus skill points are another good example. What did you do? Just an extra 2 or 3?

The bonus feat I decide on what it is based on theri training. I allow them to have some fun by describing how their training goes, and what the training consists of. Feats I've giveon out have been Endurance, Toughness, Run, Skill Focus, Improved Unarmed Strike, or a weapon Proficiency.

Skill focus is officially only +2 even though it is the most common house rule I've seen.

I give out a few bonus skill points, two or three on the average.