Trap-disabler Wanted: Optimized halflings need only apply?

[Kzach]

On the other hand, a 4th level halfling character who takes Skill Focus (Thievery) is going to have a Thievery of around +18 (+5 trained + 4 dex + 2 levels + 2 thieves tools + 2 halfling bonus + 3 skill focus). This character has a 89% chance of successfully disabling this trap, so only an 11% chance of fubaring the room.

Who the hell spends a feat on skill focus?

 

[LowSpine]

Another one I thought of is climbing.

As you climb, a mountain for example (and each mountain could have its own challenge chart based on how easy it is to climb, handholds or whatever), your chance of falling to your death may go up and down.

If you get to 0 your climbing is plain sailing because you have found a path that is like climbing a ladder.

If you reach 6 and you finally slip, because of stamina, damp rocks, poor choice of path, etc, to your death.

If you get better - you find a resting place to gather your strength, you have found a way where the rocks are drier.

If you get worse - the rocks are crumbling and your stamina is giving out. There is only so long you can hang by your finger tips.

 

[IceFractal]

LowSpine - an interesting system, it looks like it would solve the swingyness/polarizing issue, as well as having more potential for interesting halfway states.

The only issue I can see is that if the party has ~50% chance to succeed at the checks, and the challenge is significant (6+ states), then it's possible for the challenge to go on indeterminately long, as the party oscillates between high and low without reaching either end.

Perhaps a default end state would solve it - if the challenges runs for a certain number of turns without being resolved, it ends in success/failure/halfway (depending on the challenge).

 

[Chimera]

Who the hell spends a feat on skill focus?

That's what's busted in the OP. Non-specialist without feat = +12, Specialist with feat, halfling bonus and higher dex = +18. If the non-specialist took the same feat, he'd be at +15. Likewise if the specialist did NOT take the feat, he'd be at +15. The difference between them is then only +3, and that is due to the higher dexterity and the Halfling bonus; both of which are PC creation choices.

Complaining about this is kinda silly.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I don't see the problem. 4th level Multiclass (ie, dabbler) at +12, up against a 4th level optimized Specialist at +18. I don't have any problem with the optimized specialist being 50% better at it than the dabbler. I'd be disappointed if this were not true.

I agree completely. Edition or system doesn't matter. If you are going to have a class that specializes in this type of thing than a dedicated single classed character should be better than a dabbler.

 

[Zerakon]

Who the hell spends a feat on skill focus?

Someone who wants to have a decent chance of disarming a trap?

Considering someone already asked why didn't the pirate take Skill Focus, I find this comment interesting.

That's what's busted in the OP. Non-specialist without feat = +12, Specialist with feat, halfling bonus and higher dex = +18. If the non-specialist took the same feat, he'd be at +15. Likewise if the specialist did NOT take the feat, he'd be at +15. The difference between them is then only +3, and that is due to the higher dexterity and the Halfling bonus; both of which are PC creation choices.

Complaining about this is kinda silly.

I didn't complain. I pointing out that using skill challenge traps means only a specialist disabler has a good chance of disabling it, as it actually improves the specialist's chance of disabling it (compared to a one-roll disable) while it severely decreases the non-specialist's chance of disabling it. I pointed out that I didn't want to do this to my player, because I didn't think it would be fun for him, and I asked if other DMs have run into this and asked what did they do about it?

If you choose to ignore the problematic math involved in skill challenges, please continue to wear your rose-colored glasses. I prefer to do something about it so that my players will have more fun.

 

[Norhg]

dbp

 

[Norhg]

I agree completely. Edition or system doesn't matter. If you are going to have a class that specializes in this type of thing than a dedicated single classed character should be better than a dabbler.

Beliving that the difference between the two characters is "50%" and claiming that that, by itself, is fair is a non-sensical argument.

Without staring yourself blind at numbers, look at this:

A human without skill-focus will manage to disable roughly one out of four traps.
A halfling with skill-focus will manage to disable roughly nine out of ten traps.

Two parties enter the same room.
There are 20 of the above trap in it.
The party with the halfling will be subject to two traps and the one with the human to 15.


Numbers:
The human has a 25,9 chance to disable the trap, the halfling has a 89 % to disable the same trap.
Henche, the halfling is 247% more likely to disable the trap.


I consider the disreprancy huge, it should be fixed.
Requiring two consequtive failures, as I described above, does that quite neatly.

In the above room, the party with the human would be subject to eight traps. The one with the halfling to, on an average, 1.5 traps

 

[ExploderWizard]

Beliving that the difference between the two characters is "50%" and claiming that that, by itself, is fair is a non-sensical argument.

Without staring yourself blind at numbers, look at this:

A human without skill-focus will manage to disable roughly one out of four traps.
A halfling with skill-focus will manage to disable roughly nine out of ten traps.

Two parties enter the same room.
There are 20 of the above trap in it.
The party with the halfling will be subject to two traps and the one with the human to 15.


Numbers:
The human has a 25,9 chance to disable the trap, the halfling has a 89 % to disable the same trap.
Henche, the halfling is 247% more likely to disable the trap.


I consider the disreprancy huge, it should be fixed.
Requiring two consequtive failures, as I described above, does that quite neatly.

In the above room, the party with the human would be subject to eight traps. The one with the halfling to, on an average, 1.5 traps

I wasn't assuming the use of skill challenges. To do so without basically making up your own rules for them will just lead to headaches.

 

[Kishin]

Who the hell spends a feat on skill focus?

It sucks less in 4E because there are (so far) many less feats, and many more feat slots.

And less ways of boosting skills into the stratosphere.