Trap the Soul

[Janos Audron]

Why is the gem for Soul Bind a focus and the gem for Trap the Soul a material component? Is there any difference in how this should be handled?

 

[kreynolds]

Why is the gem for Soul Bind a focus and the gem for Trap the Soul a material component? Is there any difference in how this should be handled?

While thematically and functionally very similar, they are not identical. They are different spells. I could understand someone wanting to change one to more closely match the other, but I've never felt the need to do so.

 

[Janos Audron]

But aren't material components used up during casting? If so, what happens to the soul, since the gem that should hold the soul (and body, as it says in the description) is consumed?

 

[kreynolds]

But aren't material components used up during casting?

Yup, except the spell states that it isn't.

 

[AuraSeer]

Yup, except the spell states that it isn't.

The description doesn't explicitly state it, at least not in the SRD.

My assumption was that using the gem as a material component "burns up" whatever made it a useful component in the first place. If you trap a soul in a 20,000 gp diamond, but then the spell is dispelled, you're left with a worthless chunk of pretty glass.

Soul Bind wouldn't make the gem burn out, since it uses it as a focus instead of a component.

I never did research whether this was the correct interpretation, though, so it's not unlikely that I'm wrong.

 

[kreynolds]

The description doesn't explicitly state it, at least not in the SRD.

The spell's material component is the gem used to contain the trapped soul. The spell description states...

The gem holds the trapped entity indefinitely or until the gem is broken and the life force is released...

...If the gem is a material component that is consumed by the casting, how can the gem possibly <see quote>?

 

[AuraSeer]

...If the gem is a material component that is consumed by the casting, how can the gem possibly <see quote>?

The item doesn't have to be instantly destroyed in order to be "consumed" by a casting. It could be transformed irrevocably into another state.

Consider fireball. You start with a little ball of sulfur and bat guano. Perhaps when the spell goes off, you're left with some burned ashes of that mixture, scattered throughout the area of effect. If you took the time to locate and retrieve every last smithereen, you might roll it back into a little ball, but you wouldn't be able to cast another fireball with it.

For trap the soul you start with a nonmagical gem, but once the spell is cast, you don't have that gem anymore. You have some object that looks gem-like, but is really a Soul Trap (or some more interesting name if you want to invent one). A jeweler without detect magic will appraise it as worthless. Casting locate object to find "a diamond" will not find this object, because it's not a diamond anymore. Its "diamondness" was consumed by the magic.

Again, this is my own interpretation, and I'm not positive it fits the rules exactly. I just think that the main distinction between a focus and a component is that the component can never be reused-- even in a different spell. So there must be something preventing a used trap the soul gem from being a component or focus for other spells.

 

[kreynolds]

Consider fireball. You start with a little ball of sulfur and bat guano.

Material components, being consumed by spellcasting, simply go "POOF!". They're just gone. The rules do not state they can be recovered, but they do specifically state that the components are consumed. If the gem for trap the soul is comsumed, then it goes "POOF!", then the spell doesn't do anything except consume a pricey gem. But, because the spell specifically states the the gem, which is also the material component of the spell, stores the trapped entity, then the gem simply can't be consumed by the casting of the spell as material components normally are.

Elementary, dear AuraSeer. Elementary.
(Not meant as a dig. Just trying to be cute.)

For trap the soul you start with a nonmagical gem, but once the spell is cast, you don't have that gem anymore. You have some object that looks gem-like, but is really a Soul Trap (or some more interesting name if you want to invent one). A jeweler without detect magic will appraise it as worthless. Casting locate object to find "a diamond" will not find this object, because it's not a diamond anymore. Its "diamondness" was consumed by the magic.

Again, this is my own interpretation, and I'm not positive it fits the rules exactly.

But the description of the spell makes no mention whatsoever of the gem being altered. It doesn't state that the gem ceases to be a gem, or that its composition is changed at all.

 

[Norfleet]

Well, the gem used in trap the soul contains the aforementioned soul. Since the only way of unoccupying the gem is to bash it into a million pieces, rendering it useless, it's safe to say that the now occupied gem is fairly unusable.

You could still jam it into your head, though.

 

[kreynolds]

Well, the gem used in trap the soul contains the aforementioned soul. Since the only way of unoccupying the gem is to bash it into a million pieces, rendering it useless, it's safe to say that the now occupied gem is fairly unusable.

Not exactly. If you used a really expensive ruby...well...continual flame uses ruby dust as a material component.