Traps: What Should Become of the Spike-Filled Pit?

[KidSnide]

I agree that traps are better and more interesting when used in the context of a larger encounter. However, I also think they serve an important role as danger in a pure exploration setting like the Tomb of Horrors. (A less arbitrarily deadly version of the Tomb should be a staple of the genre.)

Since killing characters who step on the wrong square isn't desirable in most games, there needs to be a way to inflict damage that matters on a scale longer than the encounter. Healing surges (despite their flaws) came closer to this that post-CLW-wand 3.5 healing, but it's not clear that either are particularly satisfying. A 15-minute adventure day tendency to withdraw is also a problem.

I'm not sure I have a solution (although I wonder if some kind of "wound" system is the right direction), but I do think it's important for the game to provide at least some type of significant-yet-nonlethal damage.

-KS

 

[Nahat Anoj]

In 4e, imo, out-of-combat traps are best when they interact with the Disease subsystem.

I'm not sure I have a solution (although I wonder if some kind of "wound" system is the right direction), but I do think it's important for the game to provide at least some type of significant-yet-nonlethal damage.

Yeah, I think some sort of disease and/or wound system is the way to go.

My personal favorite idea is to have hit points completely regenerate to full after a short rest. However, if a character takes falls to 0 hp or takes a lot of damage from one source (some fraction of their total hps, like 1/5, 1/4, or 1/3), they suffer a wound. Greater damage might lead to greater wounds (light->moderate->serious->critical, perhaps). Until a wound heals, it prevents a character from healing up to full hp. For example, a light wound might only allow PCs to heal up to 4/5's of their hp. Otherwise, the wound doesn't do all that much (it could do more, I guess - but I think the limit to hps is enough of a drawback!).

So all a trap needs to do is a hefty amount of damage to inflict a wound. These wounds would accumulate until the PCs can take time to heal them, either through rest or magic.

 

[KidSnide]

My personal favorite idea is to have hit points completely regenerate to full after a short rest. However, if a character takes falls to 0 hp or takes a lot of damage from one source (some fraction of their total hps, like 1/5, 1/4, or 1/3), they suffer a wound. Greater damage might lead to greater wounds (light->moderate->serious->critical, perhaps). Until a wound heals, it prevents a character from healing up to full hp. For example, a light wound might only allow PCs to heal up to 4/5's of their hp. Otherwise, the wound doesn't do all that much (it could do more, I guess - but I think the limit to hps is enough of a drawback!).

So all a trap needs to do is a hefty amount of damage to inflict a wound. These wounds would accumulate until the PCs can take time to heal them, either through rest or magic.

I think a system like this is a very good idea, although I'm afraid it's too complicated for "simple" D&D.

As far as getting traps to do enough damage to inflict a wound, I think an easier plan would be to just have them inflict a wound. A wound becomes a type of "scarier" damage that could also be inflicted by some spells or critical hits from some monsters. Particularly tough (paragon?) characters might be able to absorb or negate a limited number of wounds.

A more explicit "wound" mechanic would also differentiate between temporary morale-based healing (like the 4e per-encounter surge-based abilities) and actual closing of wounds.

-KS

 

[Felon]

There are so many people tossing out valid points and good concepts that I fear for this thread's longevity. After all, it's rare for threads to survive for more than a couple of pages without some level of unyielding belligerence.

C'mon, people, I know you got in you.

 

[RHGreen]

The main problem with the pit trap (or traps like it) is that it is a single roll attack/save then it is done. I think the pit trap could work if you break it up into more than one roll.

1. Save versus fall/Attack versus Reflex to cling to side.
2. Someone can try to grab your arm before you slip.
3. Spike and fall damage attack.

It only helps a little but it is a start. I'm sure someone else can break it up further or develop on the idea.

 

[RHGreen]

Thinking on damage posts above I had a thought.

You get some nominal damage and roll on a critical hit table.

The critical hit table gives you a temp negative effect that you get to save against at the end of each encounter to remove.

Example: Bashed knee. -2 to move.

 

[Reynard]

There are so many people tossing out valid points and good concepts that I fear for this thread's longevity. After all, it's rare for threads to survive for more than a couple of pages without some level of unyielding belligerence.

C'mon, people, I know you got in you.

Okay, you asked for it:

[Traps have] rarely had a positive effect on the game.

 

[KidSnide]

Okay, you asked for it:

[Traps have] rarely had a positive effect on the game.

Rodney makes a good point about traps placed as random "gotchas" between encounters. To make traps fun you need to:

1) Make them part of the combat encounter (the 4e recommendation);

2) Turn them into puzzles where spotting the trap is easy, and figuring out how to disarm or bypass it is difficult; or

3) Make them part of an overall exploration "encounter" where reason can be used to figure out where to search (e.g. "search the areas that the occupants want to protect, but don't travel through regularly") and check every 10-foot square isn't the best strategy (most often due to a likelihood of detection).

Most of the time this involves thinking about the context of the dungeon: what's in it; how it's used; and what are the consequences of leaving and returning.

-KS

 

[howandwhy99]

[MENTION=26030]Philotomy[/MENTION] once said (a long time ago) that monsters used to be designed as traps. Then in d20 it became reversed, traps became monsters. I agree with him.

I delineate traps from both monsters and environmental effects in that they are alterations to an environment by an intelligent monster. Both the traps creator and the environment it is built in are part of the trap. Typically the material and ongoing affects of the environment plus the intelligence of the creature when it built the trap. Note, this doesn't mean monsters like a tiger in a pit cannot be included as part of a trap, but care of traps in such cases likely requires more upkeep than roaming the wilderness once a week or so for animal pelts.

Traps are really where a game can shine when they are about testing player ability. The challenge of a trap should be more or less complex depending upon both the loss of resources it can incur as well as the difficulty in dealing with it. This could be spotting, avoiding, enduring, escaping, or even dumb luck.

Because of how I treat traps they are very rarely found unsprung in an area where their creators are no longer maintaining them. Guarded enclosures on the other hand, like tombs, are another case entirely. If it takes a 10th level creature just to get through the door, the stuff inside is likely intact. Higher level traps are often design to endure longer anyways.

 

[KarinsDad]

Rodney makes a good point about traps placed as random "gotchas" between encounters. To make traps fun you need to:

1) Make them part of the combat encounter (the 4e recommendation);

2) Turn them into puzzles where spotting the trap is easy, and figuring out how to disarm or bypass it is difficult; or

I don't think that traps and puzzles are the same thing at all.

To me, a puzzle is something to figure out. A nasty trap that the party knows about and has to figure out is a puzzle, it's not a trap per se. It might do damage or capture PCs or something else nasty if the PCs screw it up, but it's not a trap.

A trap is something that is designed to ensnare a PC by surprise, possibly by doing damage or some other harm at the same time. The purpose of a trap is to expose one or more PCs to capture and/or harm, and usually the best time for it is during an encounter when it is no longer easy or convenient to have other PCs rescue the trapped PC. I don't like the concept of a one shot harmful trap that much. Yes, an occasional spear coming out of the wall is ok, but it's not nearly as much of a challenge as a trap that captures or segregates a PC from the rest of the team.

I'm kind of from the Grimtooth Traps School myself. A trap should scare the bejeebers out of the players, often because it is so hindering, just at the absolutely wrong time. It shouldn't just be damage and it shouldn't just be an intellectual puzzle.

I don't think that the game designers of the traps in the DMG are from that school. Most of the traps there are just rolls to hit for some damage and for some other small side effect. All of them do damage and most are one shot damage. The vast majority of them are not designed to ensare PCs. Meh. Boring. Simple damage doesn't scare the bejeebers out of the players.