D&D 5E Treantmonk's Guide to Everything Xanathar


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gyor

Legend
My guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything, where I assess the options, then you use the comments below to either shower me with praise (yay!) or tell me how terrible it is (boo!)

Seriously though, I value feedback. I'm not too concerned about the occassional grammatical mess up, but if I read something wrong, or you noticed something I didn't, I would love to hear about it!

Treantmonk's Guide to Everything Xanathar

I thought this was updated, it still has Empowered Healing as red with the falsely saying it only rerolls one die? Just curious.
 
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I thought this was updated, it still has Empowered Healing as red with the falsely saying it only rerolls one die? Just curious.

Could you have downloaded a PDF or something? I changed it to say you can, "Use a sorcery point to reroll healing dice". All reference to one die was removed when I made the correction.

I did not change the rating.
 

Phazonfish

B-Rank Agent
Big fan of your wizard guide so this was fun to read too. Just a couple of thoughts...

Firstly, I notice you seem to consider targeting Str saves to be a sizable flaw. While it's true that enemies with good Str are common, I feel like having spells that target it is not so bad, because it is more visibly apparent when something has low Str. If your enemy is a humanoid and not wearing plate/wielding a weapon as big as you, such spells seem like a safe bet. Honestly I think Watery Sphere's biggest problem isn't that it targets Str, but rather that it becomes a lot less valuable 2 levels later when you get Wall of Force; WS isn't as good as Wall of Force and doesn't have the benefit of using a small spell slot like Phantasmal Force or Hold Person. I agree with your logic on Earthbind though, most flying foes you would want to single out are gonna be able to save against it, seems kinda bad.

Secondly...


I have a fair amount of experience with summoned/created/called creatures with my wizards, and one of the primary uses of them is that any attacks and damage to them is damage you and your party don't take. I really can't imagine a case where I would want to reverse that benefit by expending my own HP to provide HP to a created creature. I hadn't noticed that feature though, and it's worth mentioning, but I can't recommend that use under any circumstance I can think of.

Not even the circumstance of being a necromancer with a bunch of sketons and zambos on their last legs and having hp and spell slots left over before you take a long rest? I imagine one can only find so many easily accessible medium/small corpses and this saves you one. Still not worth a spell selection, but if I were a necromancer who found it written I would scribe it in a heartbeat, especially since it benefits from Necromancy Savant.

Thirdly, you don't seem to be a big fan of Grave Domain Clerics. Would giving them heavy armor proficiency bump them up a bit for you? I know you don't value healing a lot, but I feel like if you want to make a healer, Grave Domain is on par with Life Domain just because of Circle of Mortality; other clerics would pop you up with a Healing Word and you'd fall in one hit. If you upcast Cure Wounds and this feature maximizes the healing, you could maybe take two, possible averting a death spiral.
 
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CapnZapp

Legend
I thought this was updated, it still has Empowered Healing as red with the falsely saying it only rerolls one die? Just curious.
Just a friendly heads up:

Feel free to consider not using the word "falsely" in this context as it implies falsification, that is, a deliberate falsehood.

The friendlier word is "erroneous". This way you still say the claim is in error (that is, false), but without any implied wrongdoing.

In short, "falsely saying" implies covering something up, suspicious behavior. While saying "in error" only suggests something much more simple: an honest-to-gawd mistake, something we all do.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Not even the circumstance of being a necromancer with a bunch of sketons and zambos on their last legs and having hp and spell slots left over before you take a long rest? I imagine one can only find so many easily accessible medium/small corpses and this saves you one.
I really don't think there's any such thing as "having hp and spell slots left over".

I mean, of course - that can happen. But isn't that case by definition an easy combat, where you don't need to take an optimal course of action?

It seems a poor rating is entirely justified when your argument basically says to use it when what you do don't matter much?



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app
 


Darkcloud

First Post
Your guides are always good stuff. Here are my thoughts:
Forge Domain - This looks very attractive for the Cleric1/Wiz X; not so much for the searing smite, but for the AC boost over other cleric domains with heavy armor proficiency. Maybe it isn’t exclusively Dwarfy themed - I’m about the start playing a rock gnome cleric 1/wiz x, and the domain seems to match the flavor of the tinkering rock gnome somewhat well.
Insightful Fighting (3rd): Use your bonus action to potentially get sneak attack against an opponent you normally wouldn’t get sneak attack against. When I’ve played rogues, the occasion for this would not occur often. When you don’t have an ally within 5’ of an enemy, often you can use cunning action for a hide/attack from hidden quick advantage. Not saying this will never come up, but I don’t think it will come up a lot.
I’m hoping to not derail discussion much here. It has been argued that you can’t successfully hide when opponents can see you attempting to hide (excluding some sort of special, DM-approved distraction). Even though cunning action allows you to take the hide action in combat quickly, it doesn’t make the action always work. I became aware of this when I watched a Youtube video by DawnforgedCast called How Stealth Works in Dungeons and Dragons. (I’m not sure about linking rules here) That video and comments offers a more complete discussion than I should attempt here. The point of the whole thing is: if a DM decides on a tight interpretation of hiding rules, then Insightful Fighting is more useful than you thought.

I agree with you, that much point for the game designers to create this ability if rogues can already freely hide in combat.

Shawang, wang, wang.
I guess this is sad music, but without cues from listening to a person speak it is confusing. The color coding helps clarify this and the occasional sarcasm elsewhere in the document. This guide has a more upbeat and playful tone than your wizard guide. (See, I had a good thing to say about the colors!)

The description of Elven Accuracy cuts off mid-sentence. No big deal, as the thought is mostly complete already. After re-reading a few times I suspect that you may have intentionally stopped for a segue for the gnome feat. If so, then it is a bit confusing since a character can’t normally get both of those feats. An ellipsis might help….

Prodigy - I’m no expert on grappling, but prodigy may be highly prized for the option to get expertise athletics without multiclassing.

Toll the Dead – Any Death domain clerics will take note of a new necromancy cantrip for the Reaper ability. Toll outclasses Chill Touch, and sounds an upgrade for the domain’s offence.
 
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Phazonfish

B-Rank Agent
I really don't think there's any such thing as "having hp and spell slots left over".

I mean, of course - that can happen. But isn't that case by definition an easy combat, where you don't need to take an optimal course of action?

It seems a poor rating is entirely justified when your argument basically says to use it when what you do don't matter much?

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

I mean, isn't the point of being a necromancer to have your minions take the hits for you so that you DO have hp left over. Furthermore, my point isn't that you should depend on having spell slots left over so much as this is nice to have in the off chance you have slots left over. I'm not saying its a great spell, just that it isn't 100% useless.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
Am I the only one who thinks that the Spectre feature is more interesting?

I think it is interesting, but I've been looking more into the Curse and the Armor of Curses abilities. Creating a 1/day undead that hates the light can be either worthless or pretty powerful, depends on the situations.
 

Your guides are always good stuff. Here are my thoughts:
Forge Domain - This looks very attractive for the Cleric1/Wiz X; not so much for the searing smite, but for the AC boost over other cleric domains with heavy armor proficiency.
Beware Heavy Armor with a Cleric 1/Wizard X build. You might find it difficult to meet the Strength requirements of the better heavy armors which will slow you down. If you can manage a Dex of at least 14, then Half-Plate (medium armor) is a great choice, which is provided by all Cleric Domains.

For me, the Cleric Domain of choice for Wizards is the Knowledge Domain. Expertise in Arcana and History? Sign me up.

That said, nothing wrong with slapping a +1 on a set of medium armor, so Forge is not a bad choice.

I’m hoping to not derail discussion much here. It has been argued that you can’t successfully hide when opponents can see you attempting to hide (excluding some sort of special, DM-approved distraction). Even though cunning action allows you to take the hide action in combat quickly, it doesn’t make the action always work. I became aware of this when I watched a Youtube video by DawnforgedCast called How Stealth Works in Dungeons and Dragons. (I’m not sure about linking rules here) That video and comments offers a more complete discussion than I should attempt here. The point of the whole thing is: if a DM decides on a tight interpretation of hiding rules, then Insightful Fighting is more useful than you thought.

Primarily, rogues gain sneak attack because they are not a party of one, and usually someone in that party fights in melee. Soon as an ally is in melee, you get sneak attack on the enemy they are in melee with. That's generally not all that hard to achieve. A bit harder on the first round, but this is where you can use a ready action. "Once Rugnar is within 5' of an enemy, I shoot them with my crossbow."

As for the video. Now, I sympathize with this guy (and this is why I would never do videos) because you can't really edit out your mistakes when you catch them. When he screws up how sneak attack works (saying you have to go into melee yourself, which isn't the case), he edits in a correction in the corner.

However, he makes another mistake he hasn't edited (and frankly, other than taking the video down, I don't know how he would fix it). He puts up "all the relevant rules" on hide, but didn't check the errata. That sentence he uses as the justification for the video? It was errated in the official PHB errata. Instead of not being able to hide when you are seen, you are unable to hide if you are seen clearly. That kind of destroys his whole video.

Besides, Jeremy Crawford has addressed this countless times. We have an official answer on this. Can rogues use cunning action to hide in combat, "That is a legitamate use of cunning action.", "You can indeed hide in combat."

It's all here

Now he mentions how he would give opponents an ever increasing bonus on perception if you continually hid behind the same rock. Now that isn't in the rules, but it seems reasonable to me. Rogues should be moving around, behind that rock, behind that tree, etc. as far as I'm concerned.

Now, keep in mind, if you have advantage, you have sneak attack. That means sneak attack can be achieved in countless other ways. Faerie fire, Vow of Enmity, Greater invisibility, and countless other abilities.

In other words, when you are a rogue, the vast majority of your attacks will be sneak attacks with even the smallest attention to tactics.

Now there are certainly those occassions where you just can't get sneak attack. In that case, insightful fighting is useful. Circumstantially useful abilities are rated orange.


The color coding helps clarify this and the occasional sarcasm elsewhere in the document. This guide has a more upbeat and playful tone than your wizard guide. (See, I had a good thing to say about the colors!)

That's one!

The description of Elven Accuracy cuts off mid-sentence. No big deal, as the thought is mostly complete already. After re-reading a few times I suspect that you may have intentionally stopped for a segue for the gnome feat. If so, then it is a bit confusing since a character can’t normally get both of those feats. An ellipsis might help….

Yes it does! I stopped midway to see what the name was for Paladin ability that gives advantage (vow of enmity), then, once I

Prodigy - I’m no expert on grappling, but prodigy may be highly prized for the option to get expertise athletics without multiclassing.

Also not an expert of grappling, but I would agree.

ProdigyToll the Dead – Any Death domain clerics will take note of a new necromancy cantrip for the Reaper ability. Toll outclasses Chill Touch, and sounds an upgrade for the domain’s offence.
I forget about the DMG NPC classes, but yes, that's really good.
 
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gyor

Legend
Just a friendly heads up:

Feel free to consider not using the word "falsely" in this context as it implies falsification, that is, a deliberate falsehood.

The friendlier word is "erroneous". This way you still say the claim is in error (that is, false), but without any implied wrongdoing.

In short, "falsely saying" implies covering something up, suspicious behavior. While saying "in error" only suggests something much more simple: an honest-to-gawd mistake, something we all do.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

erroneous is a better word, I didn't think of it at the time, I apologize.
 


Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
My guide to Xanathar's Guide to Everything, where I assess the options, then you use the comments below to either shower me with praise (yay!) or tell me how terrible it is (boo!)

Seriously though, I value feedback. I'm not too concerned about the occassional grammatical mess up, but if I read something wrong, or you noticed something I didn't, I would love to hear about it!

Treantmonk's Guide to Everything Xanathar

I noted a small but critical editing error: Tiny Servant isn't blue.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-spell-sheriff-in-town!&p=7286642#post7286642
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
Seriously speaking, while I think that the spell should be rated a shade of blue so potent it would permanently damage computer screens, on a more objective fashion... it might even be worth a green.

The utility of the spell is tremendous, the roleplaying potential is substantial, and if you are creative a bit, the combat utility can be increased beyond it's basic potential.
 

Treantmonk, Just one thing about the Grave Cleric's Channel Divinity that may make the rating better. The Path to the Grave feature makes the target vulnerable to ALL of the next attacks damage. I think that this is obviously good for a Paladin, the kings of burst damage, especially if they score a critical hit. That is all.
 

Phion

Explorer
Beware Heavy Armor with a Cleric 1/Wizard X build. You might find it difficult to meet the Strength requirements of the better heavy armors which will slow you down. If you can manage a Dex of at least 14, then Half-Plate (medium armor) is a great choice, which is provided by all Cleric Domains.

For me, the Cleric Domain of choice for Wizards is the Knowledge Domain. Expertise in Arcana and History? Sign me up.

That said, nothing wrong with slapping a +1 on a set of medium armor, so Forge is not a bad choice.

Just go a dwarf with heavy armour with no strength as they don't get the negatives of not meeting strength requirement. Your int will not be the best to begin with but decent at level 4 (5 really) if you increase int to 16. Add a shield while at it and use one handed spell implement. Single level into cleric forge because flavour.
 

Mythknight

First Post
Treantmonk,

It would be great to see your plans for a Hexblade. You mentioned in your review that would be the first subclass you would try out. Any views into your build world would be great. Thanks.
 

jgsugden

Legend
Treantmonk,

It would be great to see your plans for a Hexblade. You mentioned in your review that would be the first subclass you would try out. Any views into your build world would be great. Thanks.
There are a lot of ways to go with the Hexblade depending upon whether you want to be a melee character primarily, a mix of melee and blast/archer, or a gish concept that mixes different magics with swordplay. Which are you interested in most?
 

Mythknight

First Post
There are a lot of ways to go with the Hexblade depending upon whether you want to be a melee character primarily, a mix of melee and blast/archer, or a gish concept that mixes different magics with swordplay. Which are you interested in most?

I am not really sure. Honestly they all seem fun (except the standard EB blaster). That was sort of the reason I asked to see what others are looking at in a build out. My initial thought, because it seems different, was to go hand crossbow build, eventually taking either 2 levels of Fighter or 3 of Gloom Stalker (to get Darkvision to free up the invocation, and Archery style to offset the eventual Sharpshooter/xbow expert combo). Overall the build looked solid, except maybe a little light on feats due to only 4 ASI from Warlock. Since it was a hand crossbow I also considered maybe 3 levels of rogue or so.

My second thought was the PAM build, but again light on feats makes it tough.

From a RP concept I wanted to be a gambler who made his living from that. Finding that he was taking money from successful adventurers he decided that the risk was worth the reward. He has a minor quirk of talking to his patron (spirit of a warrior who once used a sentient weapon) as if he was really there. I imagined something similar to the way Stephen from Braveheart talked to god. Originally I thought taking the Lucky feat as a Vhuman would suit the idea but again lack of feats/ASI makes that tough.

Since my mind is all over the place, and the RP concept could work with any of those, I thought I would ask for help.

On a side note if I was going EB blaster (very small chance), I thought of starting 3 levels in Shadow Sorc. The flavor of the Shadowfell and a sentient weapon from there being my patron seemed fun. I was going the opposite of the standard Sorclock and more of a Warcerer? Lockerer? Oh well, you get it. More Lock than Sorc.
 

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