Treasure & Magic Items

[Timely Drought]

How do you handle this in your games? It seems so complicated...

Players who rely on random loot will get mismatched gear... Like the poor fighter whos best weapon isnt his focus/specialty. Players who use item creation feats get to chose their gear at the loss of xp. However what do you do when its the cohort that has the item creation feats? Do you let players buy their gear from magic item shops in big enough cities?

Should players be able to tailor all of their gear to their build to count as PCs that can take on appropriate CR encounters and face the standard ressource depletion? Or will-they be over-optimized of they do that?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Players who rely on random loot will get mismatched gear... Like the poor fighter whos best weapon isnt his focus/specialty.

True that.

Players who use item creation feats get to chose their gear at the loss of xp.

More importantly, this loss of XP is not felt over the long run. As the PC with the item creation feat(s) drops in level, he'll gain a correspondingly higher amount of XP until they equalize again. But, he'll then have (theoretically) twice as much magical items.

However what do you do when its the cohort that has the item creation feats?

Well, if the DM gave the cohort item-creation feats, he must have had something in mind. Regardless, the cohort should not be making items for others at cheaper costs. The players, including the PC with the cohort, will not (or should not) gain from this and should still pay full price. The cohort's XP counts for something.

Do you let players buy their gear from magic item shops in big enough cities?

Either from shops or from special buyers or whatever. This is a highly stylistic question, though, obviously. IMO, any high magic (i.e. standard) campaign will realistically have to have shops. It's not realistic economically, but it is logically. It's weird to say the least.

Should players be able to tailor all of their gear to their build to count as PCs that can take on appropriate CR encounters and face the standard ressource depletion? Or will-they be over-optimized of they do that?

The word you are looking for here is "powergaming." Yes, they should be able to do it, but it could be a stylistic choice on the DM (or group) to try to curb that attitude. Or not, but then the DM should have the monsters do the same thing. As an exercise, I once made a CR14 dragon with all of his treasure in useable items. I assure you that that beastie was MUCH tougher than any other CR14 dragon you could otherwise imagine. If the same principle holds true for PC's, then yes they will be able to handle higher encounter levels. It makes it tough to DM, though.

 

[Coredump]

I like the players to have to make decisions. Some hard, some easy.

They can use the +2 shortsword, or sell it, and use the money as a downpayment on a commisioned +2 longsword. They get what they want, but have to wait X amount of time to get it.

The can buy magic, but not at a Mag-Mart superstore. So somethings are available, some are not. It makes the world (IMO) more alive. I have had characters change paths based on equipment. They found a certain magic item,and built on that. More organic than planning out 15 levels in advance.

I think "What can the characters do with what they have?" has a more interesting answer than "What can the characters do if they can order anything from the DMG?".
OTOH, I have also provided items that were pretty powerful, or things that cannot be made by the standard rules.

 

[werk]

How do you handle this in your games? It seems so complicated.
Players who rely on random loot will get mismatched gear... Like the poor fighter whos best weapon isnt his focus/specialty.

While I don't use random loot rolls, this is often the case IMC. I equip enemies with appropriate gear and items to their level and abilities, then the party gets whatever is left after the battle...if they can find it. They can then use, sell, or trade those items for 'custom' items. The fact that you say the gear is mis-matched, leads me to believe that you think that gear should be matched or easy-stack in order to function properly or as intended. I don't subscibe to that line of thinking.

Players who use item creation feats get to chose their gear at the loss of xp.

Not a bad trade, but I rarely get specialized magic crafters, usually just scrolls, potions, or wands. If a character is willing to invest in the feats, and pay the Xp, GP, and time...go for it. If it gets out of hand, I'll start to make some components more difficult to find or cause distractions.

However what do you do when its the cohort that has the item creation feats?

Hmm, good question. Since the cohorts no longer eat XP, I wouldn't allow them to pay XP or GP directly, they would need to come from the leader or other source.

Do you let players buy their gear from magic item shops in big enough cities?

No magic shops. Magic will often be found for sale or trade, but not with any sort of selection and never of much value. A character could find someone willing to make the custom item, but that is difficult and requires a quest or some such.

Should players be able to tailor all of their gear to their build to count as PCs that can take on appropriate CR encounters and face the standard ressource depletion? Or will-they be over-optimized of they do that?

I believe that unlimited access custom magic items causes overpowered characters which quickly leads to living or dying by a roll of the dice. Once you are overpowered, appropriate challenges are super easy, so the DM bumps the CR...it's a vicious cycle. I haven't had any trouble running with the guidelines I've posted, but players do periodically complain about the inability to twink out their character with ease...they then usually comment on how much fun my campaigns are because they are more challenging than their other campaigns.

.02

 

[FireLance]

I've posted how my group deals with gear and treasure in a number of threads discussing the issue. It's not for everyone, but at least one person has found it interesting, so here it is:

My group allows the players to tailor their characters' gear however they like, subject to the standard wealth guidelines in page 135 of the DMG. Every time the characters level up, they get to re-select whatever gear they want, up to the standard wealth guidelines for a character of their new level. So, a 2nd-level PC with 900 gp of gear, say, a masterwork greatsword, breastplate, a composite longbow [+2 damage bonus], ammunition, and other adventuring equipment, makes a level. He can select up to 2,700 gp of gear, say, a masterwork spiked chain, full plate armor, a masterwork composite longbow [+1 damage bonus], a potion of bull's strength, a potion of cure light wounds, ammunition, and other adventuring equipment.

In addition to cutting down on intra-party squabbling about who gets what, it also saves the DM the hassle of second-guessing what the players want, and placing appropriate treasure in the adventure. It also ensures that the PCs are relatively well-balanced with respect to each other (nobody gets all the good magic items) and with the challenges they are expected to face (they are always equipped with a reasonable amount of gear for their level).

The standard in-game explanation for how the PC's gear improves is that he belongs to an organization that keeps him appropriately equipped. Along the way, our group has developed additional handwaves: some magic items actually improve with the character (as a paladin grows in power, the +1 longsword he frequently uses becomes a +1 holy longsword, for example) or change because of in-game events (the +1 holy longsword dealt the final blow to a demon and now thirsts for the blood of other fiends, becoming a +1 holy evil outsider bane longsword), the character is given a reward, the character gains an inheritance, the character actually finds treasure at the end of the adventure, etc.

Item creation feats provide a 25% discount to the cost of any item that the character can create himself. So, a 1st-level wizard only needs to pay 18.25 gp (19 gp if you don't want to deal with fractions) for a scroll of any 1st-level spell in his spellbook. If he wants a scroll of a spell that is not in his spellbook, he has to pay the full 25 gp.

 

[Goolpsy]

I roll Random treasure... or i let my players roll them. So im sitting there with my book.. asking one player after another to roll a dice and i love to see the look on their faces when they roll a potion
The joyous look when they get an Armor or a weapon isn't bad either

Sure they get mixed gear.. but thats the fun of it.. they learn to take advantage of what they have.
I usually always make the missions 'close' to a bigger city, where they are able to purchase new gear or upgrate their own from the loots they've colleted.

Trust me random treasure works perfectly! i'dd rather have the tables as d1000 instead though, the more options.. the more fun

 

[Dimensional]

How do you handle this in your games? It seems so complicated...

Players who rely on random loot will get mismatched gear... Like the poor fighter whos best weapon isnt his focus/specialty. Players who use item creation feats get to chose their gear at the loss of xp. However what do you do when its the cohort that has the item creation feats? Do you let players buy their gear from magic item shops in big enough cities?

Should players be able to tailor all of their gear to their build to count as PCs that can take on appropriate CR encounters and face the standard ressource depletion? Or will-they be over-optimized of they do that?

I Mix it up a bit. Some random Loot. Some loot I set up To fill a hole for a particular Character. Some Choices of rewards for Players. Seems to work OK

Item Creation. Hasn't realy come up much. No one has put a lot of effort into it. I think Their afraid that thier ging to end up spending Their XP on th eothers Items - Dunno. But I'd play it buy the book if and when it happens.

Cohorts with Item creation feats are a bad idea - For the cohort.
Because Cohort XP is linked to a ratio of the cohorts level and the players level, If the cohort loses a level due to Spending XP The amount of XP he will gain per encounter will decrese - That is he will never catch up with the party. Using Cohorts as Item creators just makes them a lot less usefull the rest of the time as they drop behind the party in levels.
So I wouldn't advise it both because It makes it to easy for the PC to gain stuff and makes the Cohort Much worse.

Jeremy

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Players who rely on random loot will get mismatched gear... Like the poor fighter whos best weapon isnt his focus/specialty. Players who use item creation feats get to chose their gear at the loss of xp.

I personally place magic items/gear. No random tables here, though sometimes the PCs might think otherwise. I basically toss out a mixture of random stuff the party won't particularly like, but also make sure that things don't go on too long before the PCs find things they can use.

However what do you do when its the cohort that has the item creation feats?

I don't allow cohorts with item creation feats.

Do you let players buy their gear from magic item shops in big enough cities?

No, but not because I want to limit the items. I just find the idea of Magic-Mart a bit too easy. So instead I treat magic item sales as a black market item. You need connections (gather information) who trust you (diplomacy) and won't rip you off (sense motive) and will offer you a fair price for your swag (diplomacy). And all of it role-played out, at least the first time a specific contact is met--and if the item is particularly "interesting."

Should players be able to tailor all of their gear to their build to count as PCs that can take on appropriate CR encounters and face the standard ressource depletion? Or will-they be over-optimized of they do that?

I think the game assumes the PCs will have a certain level of wealth that is tailored to them, though the DMG doesn't differentiate between gear found and gear made/purchased. FireLance's system, for instance, is probably perfectly balanced. I don't use it myself, but that's a matter of taste, not balance.

 

[darthkilmor]

In a game I'm playing in now, the DM regulates the pc's wealth very strictly, every few levels we have a "reset" so to speak, where we figure out our gear to be exactly or really close to the DMG chart. Its a pain in some respects in that we'll usually give up potions that we hadn't used to get back under or at the value we should be at, but a plus in that if we didnt have a particular weapon we wanted, we can kinda go "ok, i'll take a +1 longsword, coolies". So its a bit like having magic shops around but without the need to actually have the gp for the stuff. (the rp aspect helps explain this as we're a kind of mercenary group employed by the regional gov'mint, ie we get a "stipend")

I also am the only spellcaster(cleric) and used create wonderous alot the last time we did this to outfit everyone with utility gear at a cheaper price for them but an xp cost for me. I dont mind it though cause if i'm 500-1000xp behind its no big deal, as having everyone with boots of +10 move silently or what have you is much more handy in the long run to party survivability.(3.0 skill bonus items roxx0r). I guess it depends on your personality, would you care if you were 1-2 levels behind everyone because you make magic items to keep them alive? I dont(as as a cleric, the better they stay alive, the less worry for me).

I find this way of playing to be pretty nice, as we dont really care about keeping track of personal gp.