D&D 5E Tried Speed Factor Initiative for the first time last night. Your thoughts?

[FormerlyHemlock]

Ok... perhaps the ability to disrupt casting spells by causing damage before they got the spell off, and changing initiative every round, and declaring actions up front, made the game feel more random/exciting?

There was a definite tactical dimension to initiative. The reason spells like Power Word: Kill exist is because killing with a single word of power was FAST and therefore hard to disrupt. In 5E, power word spells are mostly pointless, but back in the day, given the choice between 2-11 initiative for PWK or 10-19 for Meteor Swarm, when the enemy fighter is going to disrupt you somewhere between 4-13 with his long sword +2... in that situation, there is a definite up side to PWK.

 

[Psikerlord#]

There was a definite tactical dimension to initiative. The reason spells like Power Word: Kill exist is because killing with a single word of power was FAST and therefore hard to disrupt. In 5E, power word spells are mostly pointless, but back in the day, given the choice between 2-11 initiative for PWK or 10-19 for Meteor Swarm, when the enemy fighter is going to disrupt you somewhere between 4-13 with his long sword +2... in that situation, there is a definite up side to PWK.

Yes, it's all coming back to me now! That was a pretty cool aspect of the game, back in the day. hmmm.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

Ok... perhaps the ability to disrupt casting spells by causing damage before they got the spell off ... ,

This is the biggest bonus of a more complex initiative system, IMO. In my 1E/2E games spell interruption was such a check on the power of casters that we never really saw the caster/martial power imbalance so many people talk about. It made for interesting tactics too. In combat, frequently the most important task was to keep the baddies off of the magic-user so he could get his nuke off.

 

[Psikerlord#]

This is the biggest bonus of a more complex initiative system, IMO. In my 1E/2E games spell interruption was such a check on the power of casters that we never really saw the caster/martial power imbalance so many people talk about. It made for interesting tactics too. In combat, frequently the most important task was to keep the baddies off of the magic-user so he could get his nuke off.

Yes I remember that too. I think I will give the initiative every round option a try, see how it feels with 5e.

 

[Smoo]

We've tried this the last two weeks. So far, it's been much slower, but we've chalked that up to a learning curve, and to the fact that we had some players missing (but the characters were still present, so the group had to make decisions for a character they were't as familiar with). The group really likes the idea of declaring your actions in advance. It gets somewhat chaotic when trying to figure out who goes in what order among the party, but they're falling into a routine. I think we'll be sticking with it since it adds so much flavor and believable narrative to the combats, and it will only get faster.

Sure, every once in a while somebody winds up with a declared action that is no longer valid, but we incorporated the idea of being able to swap on the fly to a Dash, Disengage, or Dodge and everyone really liked that. They were very accepting of the idea that just because you haven't attacked anybody this round doesn't mean you're not being effective, and that made my heart grow seven sizes that day.

Every combat since we started the system has felt much less formulaic and always resulted in a very evocative and believable flow. Thumbs up.

 

[Kalshane]

I used weapon speed back in my 2E days, but once I became familiar with actual sword-fighting, I realized they're not particularly realistic. (Yes, you can physically swing your dagger faster than the other guy can swing his greatsword, but he can kill you from 5 feet away while you need to get right in his face to stab him. The difference in swing speeds ends up a wash unless you want to develop a system that takes into account the reach for all melee weapons and how one moves in and out of it and how one counters their opponent's attempts to do the same.)

That being said, I can see the appeal of the "Declare first, then roll initiative" of pre 3E. I'm not sure the headaches of tracking effects that end at the start or end of someone's turn or the extra time spent rolling and tracking initiative every round are worth it, though. More power to the folks that make it work.

 

[redrick]

I used weapon speed back in my 2E days, but once I became familiar with actual sword-fighting, I realized they're not particularly realistic. (Yes, you can physically swing your dagger faster than the other guy can swing his greatsword, but he can kill you from 5 feet away while you need to get right in his face to stab him. The difference in swing speeds ends up a wash unless you want to develop a system that takes into account the reach for all melee weapons and how one moves in and out of it and how one counters their opponent's attempts to do the same.)

That being said, I can see the appeal of the "Declare first, then roll initiative" of pre 3E. I'm not sure the headaches of tracking effects that end at the start or end of someone's turn or the extra time spent rolling and tracking initiative every round are worth it, though. More power to the folks that make it work.

Haha, fortunately, REAL realism is not an issue for our group as none of us have ever held a sword. I'm of mixed minds on the whole speed factor bonuses, but I like delineating the different kinds of actions and weapons a bit. Even if it doesn't hold up in a truly simulationist sense.

As for round-long effects, I'll just fudge it on track fly and take notes. We're not a very lawyerly table. I'll probably codify it over time, with the main idea being: you shouldn't miss the benefit of a positive effect you've cast just for good initiative, but you should be able to "cheat" a bad effect with a good init roll.

 

[Smoo]

For spell effects which last a round, I just make a note of the initiative number that the caster acted on. It lasts until that initiative number the following round.

 

[Celtavian]

2E combat. So much fun.

I do miss round by round initiative. It did make combat seem frenetic with the tide of battle changing from moment to moment in favor of different individuals. Given the short combats in 5E, it may work well. It would have been a nightmare in 3E.

To deal with spell duration for long-term effects (a minute or longer) you could say each affect ticks off a end of the round after everyone has finished their turn.

As far as short-term effects like stunning strike or prone, the changing duration based on each initiative roll is part of the changing tides of combat. Sometimes someone snaps out of it earlier, sometimes later. That fits with the cinematic combat style. Everything doesn't work for the same length of time.

The real headache for round by round initiative isn't the players rolling, it's the monsters. In large fights, you'll be rolling a lot of initiatives every round.

 

[Hriston]

The real headache for round by round initiative isn't the players rolling, it's the monsters. In large fights, you'll be rolling a lot of initiatives every round.

Groups of identical monsters can still roll one initiative, can't they?