Tripping while wielding weapons

[JimAde]

I must agree. Having been tripped by nothing more than a leg and a push from a shoulder, I can confidently state that you can trip with your hands full. Or without hands. Or without arms.

- Kemrain the Embarrassed to be so Easily Tripped.

"I rolled a one, sue me!"

Yep, I've had that happen, too, but the person who did it definitely had Improved Trip

I'm still not convinced about the no-hands trip. This is the rules forum after all and the rules, AFAIK, allow it. Also I know it can be done, but I might at least assign a penalty to the attempt. I'm building grappling/tripping monks at the moment, and I'd like them to have a reason to be unarmed. I'll think about it.

 

[drnuncheon]

I can definitely trip someone with my hands full, and I'm fairly certain I don't have Improved Trip. (Unlike some folks, I won't claim that a couple years of classes has turned me into a 6th level monk...)

Not that D&D has much basis in reality, but...

J

 

[JimAde]

I can definitely trip someone with my hands full, and I'm fairly certain I don't have Improved Trip. (Unlike some folks, I won't claim that a couple years of classes has turned me into a 6th level monk...)

Not that D&D has much basis in reality, but...

J

Right, but it's easier if you have a hand free to unbalance them, isn't it? I'm just saying I think at least one empty hand should be the base case, and trying it no-hands should get you penalties of some kind. I can hit somebody with a stick in my off-hand, but in D&D I (correctly) take penalties for doing so.

 

[Kemrain]

Let's say I have a Kama in each hand.. I get my leg behind someone else's and push.. With my hand.. With a Kama in it.. Even though my hand is full, I can still exert force with it. I don't need to Grab him, just Push him. You can push with a fist.

I'm confident the rules don't mention tripping with a hand free, because it's not a rule.

- Kemrain the Martial.

 

[JimAde]

Let's say I have a Kama in each hand.. I get my leg behind someone else's and push.. With my hand.. With a Kama in it.. Even though my hand is full, I can still exert force with it. I don't need to Grab him, just Push him. You can push with a fist.

I'm confident the rules don't mention tripping with a hand free, because it's not a rule.

- Kemrain the Martial.

You're right. The rules definitely don't mention it. Ok, I'm convinced. No penalties. I give up

 

[Kemrain]

...w00t?

- Kemrain the Speachless.

I've never been RIGHT before! *Grin*

 

[Caliban]

You actually don't need a free hand to trip. You can try to kick someone's legs out from under them as easily as you can reach down and try to pull their legs out from under them. You just provoke an AoO for doing so unless you have Improved Trip.

If you have Improved Unarmed Attack, you also don't provoke an AoO. You just don't get the +4 bonus that Improved Trip gives you.

 

[JimAde]

...w00t?

- Kemrain the Speachless.

I've never been RIGHT before! *Grin*

There's a first time for everything

Seriously, I guess my first reaction to this came form the little bit of Aikido I've done. I've been working on some advanced tripping and grappling feats that reflect that style (in a cinematic way) and I can just require a free hand for those advanced feats. I hadn't thought to include that requirement, but now I'll add it. Thanks.

 

[Kemrain]

If you have Improved Unarmed Attack, you also don't provoke an AoO. You just don't get the +4 bonus that Improved Trip gives you.

Tripping is an "Unarmed melee touch attack." It also "provokes an attack of opportunity from your target as normal for unarmed strikes." So far, you seem to be correct. However, under Avoiding Attacks of Opportunity it states "If you have the Improved Trip feat, or you are tripping with a weapon you don't provoke an attack of opportunity for making a trip attack." - Pages 158-9 in the PHB.

It clearly states how you can avoid the AoO, and Improved Unarmed Strike is not one of the ways mentioned. I DO understand your argument, however, as written, I can't find the rules to back your statement.

- Kemrain the Axiomatic.

JimAde,

I've seen Aikido. Aikido kicks all arse. For those advanced techniques, and Aikido is certanly advanced and specialized, I would certanly agree with the Hand Free requirement for most techniques.

- Kemrain the Monk-Wannabe.

 

[JimAde]

It clearly states how you can avoid the AoO, and Improved Unarmed Strike is not one of the ways mentioned. I DO understand your argument, however, as written, I can't find the rules to back your statement.

I agree. Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple and Improved Trip all allow you to avoid AoO in specific situations, but not when doing other flavors of attack. If they did you could just take Improved Unarmed Strike and never provoke attacks of opportunity while attacking.

JimAde,

I've seen Aikido. Aikido kicks all arse. For those advanced techniques, and Aikido is certanly advanced and specialized, I would certanly agree with the Hand Free requirement for most techniques.

- Kemrain the Monk-Wannabe.

Yeah, I love Aikido but haven't had time for it in ages.