D&D 5E Troll PC race experiment

[Flamestrike]

After the weeks

Blacksmith: Here is the greatest of my works. Now, it is yo-
Troll Warchief and his horde pop up.

DM: I shrug, and find a different blacksmith. Here is another 150GP.

I wait.

 

[NotAYakk]

Version 2! Hope this suits those of you who liked the original, as well as the folks with constructive criticism.

Troll Traits
Ability Score Increase. Your Constitution score increases by 2, and your Strength score increases by 1. [If you are using post-Tasha's guidelines, assign the +2 and +1 wherever you wish.]
Size. Your size is Medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can’t discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Keen Senses. You have proficiency in the Perception skill.

[/QUOTE]
I'd drop this and give them scent? It is more fun.

Claws. Your claws are natural weapons, which you can use to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with your claws, you deal slashing damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier.
Natural Armor. When you aren't wearing armor, your AC is 13 + your Dexterity modifier. You can use your natural armor to determine your AC if the armor you wear would leave you with a lower AC. A shield's benefits apply as normal while you use your natural armor.
Powerful Build. You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
Regeneration. As an action, you can spend one Hit Die to heal yourself. Roll the die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1). If you take acid or fire damage, this trait doesn't function until you finish a short or long rest.

This seems sub-par at this point. Burning an action for a HD is pretty meh in combat. Out of combat it just means that your short rest for HP recovery is shorter than 1 hour.

And, what little use it has in combat doesn't scale; 1 action for 1 HD+con at level 1 isn't bad, but by level 5 it is a very stupid move.

As an idea, what it was:
* As an action you can start to regenerate. Roll a HD adding your constitution bonus to each die and add that value to your regeneration pool. Whenever you have points in this regeneration pool, lose your proficiency bonus points from the pool at the start of your turn, and heal up to that many HP. When you take fire or acid damage, you do not heal from your regeneration pool until the end of your next turn, but still lose points from it.

This is both weaker and stronger than your above version. It is weaker, in that the HP comes gradually, and doesn't even start healing until the start of your next turn; it is stronger, in that you burn 1 action and get the benefit for a while. It also acts more like trollish regeneration.

Troll Feats

Trollish Fortitude
Prerequisite: Troll

• Increase your Strength or Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
• You can now use your Regeneration trait whenever you take the Dodge action in combat.
• You gain the Bite trait. Your fanged maw is a natural weapon, which you can use to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with your bite, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier.

A problem I have with the half-feat model is that you could easily max out your strength or constitution before you get such a feat. I'd rather these feats be bigger and not be half feats?

Bite is a ribbon. Make it a bonus action to make it matter.

I might add bugbear style reach. Long arms.

Trollish Stature
Prerequisite: 8th Level, Troll

• Increase your Strength or Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
• Your Powerful Build trait is replaced by the Large Stature trait. Your size is Large. (See the sidebar on Large Player Characters.)
• Increase the damage inflicted by your Claws trait to 2d6 + your Strength modifier.

Large is the only thing here worth a feat. And as it depends heavily on that sidebar, you should detail it.

Greater Trollish Fortitude
Prerequisite: 8th Level, Troll, Trollish Fortitude feat

• Increase your Strength or Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
• You can now use your Regeneration trait as a bonus action. If you take acid or fire damage, this trait now functions again after a minute has passed.

Eating up all of the feats a PC gets (more than even) isn't great in my opinion. Especially as you are doing it with half-feats.

Superior Trollish Fortitude
Prerequisite: 12th Level, Troll, Greater Trollish Fortitude feat

• Increase your Strength or Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
• Increase your Natural Armor to AC 14 + your Dexterity modifier.
• Your Regeneration trait now allows you to restore severed body parts. Your severed body members (fingers, legs, and so on) are restored after a short or long rest. If you have the severed part and hold it to the stump, your Regeneration instantaneously causes the limb to knit to the stump.

Half feat, 1 point of AC, and body parts. A bit slipshod, honestly.

Supreme Trollish Fortitude
Prerequisite: 16th Level, Troll, Superior Trollish Fortitude feat

• Increase your Strength or Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
• You can now use your Regeneration trait as a reaction. If you take acid or fire damage, this trait doesn't function at the beginning of your next turn, but now functions again at the beginning of your following turn. If you start your turn with 0 hit points and can't use your Regeneration trait, you must succeed on three death saving throws before your Regeneration trait can function again.

By T4, I'd make the regeneration occur whenever you are at half HP or less for free.

 

[Weiley31]

I like how Iron Kingdom does Troll Regeneration as they have a Trollkin racial option for PCs. If you roll a 1 or a 2 when spending a Hit Die to regain Hit Points, you can reroll the Hit Die and must take whatever pops up on the new roll. If you allowed the optional 5E Healing Surge rule where you can Bonus Action a Healing Surge, I'd rule as a DM that you could use the Troll Kin's Regeneration when you spend a Hit Die to do that.

 

[JEB]

Thanks for the detailed feedback, @NotAYakk!

I'd drop this and give them scent? It is more fun.

I considered just Keen Scent in the original version, because it was indeed more fun and flavorful. But it doesn't appear that any PC race you'd expect to have specific keen senses (like sight or smell) actually has them; instead, they have access to full-fledged Perception proficiency. So I bowed to the standard.

This seems sub-par at this point. Burning an action for a HD is pretty meh in combat. Out of combat it just means that your short rest for HP recovery is shorter than 1 hour.

And, what little use it has in combat doesn't scale; 1 action for 1 HD+con at level 1 isn't bad, but by level 5 it is a very stupid move.

Note that this is basically how Dwarven Fortitude (from Xanathar's) works. Both use your action to heal, but Dwarven Fortitude packages it with a Dodge action. And since that's expected to be acquired at 4th level (dwarves don't get a starting feat under 2014 rules), downgrading the base version to "you still take an action to heal, but without the Dodge benefits" seemed logical. (Trollish Fortitude, of course, is basically Dwarven Fortitude with some troll bits tacked on.)

As an idea, what it was:

* As an action you can start to regenerate. Roll a HD adding your constitution bonus to each die and add that value to your regeneration pool. Whenever you have points in this regeneration pool, lose your proficiency bonus points from the pool at the start of your turn, and heal up to that many HP. When you take fire or acid damage, you do not heal from your regeneration pool until the end of your next turn, but still lose points from it.

This is both weaker and stronger than your above version. It is weaker, in that the HP comes gradually, and doesn't even start healing until the start of your next turn; it is stronger, in that you burn 1 action and get the benefit for a while. It also acts more like trollish regeneration.

I like the idea of a healing pool, and appreciate you working out the mechanics, but this honestly seems kind of complicated for a 5E trait. Especially, again, when Dwarven Fortitude is clearly more the officially intended approach. (That, or the goliath's Stone's Endurance.)

I actually did look at the fighter's Second Wind and the paladin's Lay on Hands feature as possible models for a "regeneration pool" at one point when working on version 2, but it seemed to step on those classes' turf too much.

A problem I have with the half-feat model is that you could easily max out your strength or constitution before you get such a feat. I'd rather these feats be bigger and not be half feats?

1) Assuming your troll PC starts with Con 17 and Str 15, you'd need three of these feats to max out your Con, and picking Str for the other two would only get you to Str 17. You could pick ASIs instead of some of these feats to get both to 20, but it'd be at the cost of the full troll features. (A troll fighter could also burn up some of their extra feat slots to max their Str or Con a little earlier, of course.)

2) Don't blame me for the half-feat model, that's the standard for most feats in 5E. And if I piled too many of the non-ASI features together, the feats would be too powerful for their level (unless I delayed these super-feats to even higher levels than they are now).

Bite is a ribbon. Make it a bonus action to make it matter.

I'm inclined to keep Bite as more or less a ribbon, but if it seems balanced with other Level 4 character options, maybe.

I might add bugbear style reach. Long arms.

The bugbear's weird long arms, I'm pretty sure, were an attempt to give them something Large-ish as a replacement for the monster bugbear's Brute trait. (In the process, giving them a trait that was distinctly un-bugbear-ish - until MOTM, I suppose.) Since the troll is designed to get actual Large size, not inclined towards such a weird workaround. (It fits them even less than the bugbear, anyway.)

Large is the only thing here worth a feat. And as it depends heavily on that sidebar, you should detail it.

I'd rather keep the sidebar, so it can be applied to any other Large PC races that might occur later on. (I'm also skeptical that it would be listed out in the race writeup were this official.)

Eating up all of the feats a PC gets (more than even) isn't great in my opinion. Especially as you are doing it with half-feats.

No, it's not at all ideal - I originally intended to only do 2-3 feats (since a CR 5 creature like the troll should only be about an 8th level character, by my calculations). The problem is balancing troll regeneration with the two means of PC regeneration that exist in the core rules, the very rare Ring of Regeneration and the 7th-level Regeneration spell - both of which should only be available to PCs of level 13 or higher.

Again, I could condense the features and make them available as only higher-level feats, but that means lower-level troll PCs are stuck with the fairly limited base features.

Half feat, 1 point of AC, and body parts. A bit slipshod, honestly.

By T4, I'd make the regeneration occur whenever you are at half HP or less for free.

I'm actually considering moving the reaction regeneration to 12th level instead of the +1 AC, and making the 16th-level feat permit per-turn regen (like the actual troll).

I'll probably do a version 3, but I'll wait here a bit longer for any more feedback.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Trollish Fortitude[/B]
Prerequisite: Troll

• Increase your Strength or Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
• You can now use your Regeneration trait whenever you take the Dodge action in combat.
• You gain the Bite trait. Your fanged maw is a natural weapon, which you can use to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with your bite, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier.

Bite is effectively the same as the Claws trait. I'd suggest simply merging it into the base class able to deal Piercing and slashing damage with their unarmed attacks.

The feat could do with something else. I would suggest a benefit of some sort to when you roll HD to heal. Maybe add your Proficiency bonus?

• 
  Greater Trollish Fortitude
  Prerequisite: 8th Level, Troll, Trollish Fortitude feat
  • Increase your Strength or Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
  • You can now use your Regeneration trait as a bonus action. If you take acid or fire damage, this trait now functions again after a minute has passed.

• 
  Could probably do with something else as well. Maybe giving additional HD (since these are a rather limited resource.)
  
  

  Superior Trollish Fortitude
  Prerequisite: 12th Level, Troll, Greater Trollish Fortitude feat
  

  • Increase your Strength or Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
  • Increase your Natural Armor to AC 14 + your Dexterity modifier.
  • Your Regeneration trait now allows you to restore severed body parts. Your severed body members (fingers, legs, and so on) are restored after a short or long rest. If you have the severed part and hold it to the stump, your Regeneration instantaneously causes the limb to knit to the stump.

  This just seems like two ribbons. It is unlikely that a Troll character will have a Dex high enough to use their Natural Armour rather than worn armour.
  There are very few mechanics in 5e that chop off nonvital body parts.
  You could probably happily remove this feat and drop the higher-level one down to this level.
  
  Large weapons: The suggestion that a weapon scaled to fit you is a different proficiency doesn't really fit in terms of thematics or mechanics. There would be more of an argument that you would have trouble using a medium-sized greatsword when you are large sized, since it is no longer scaled to your proportions. PCs don't lose their proficiency in their weapons when they grow in size and their weapons grow with them through other effects.
  Also, many of the classes that this race would be appealing to are automatically proficient in all martial weapons. There are very few which would have specific proficiency in Greatsword (medium).

 

[Weiley31]

In regard to Large Weapons, Call of the Netherdeep uses the Pathfinder ruling with large weapons in which the Damage Die of a weapon is bumped up by one step. so 2D6 becomes 2D8, 1D6 becomes 1D8, 2D4 becomes 2D6, etc etc.

 

[RealAlHazred]

With my troll PC race, I played around with giving extra hit dice equal to Proficiency Bonus, that were not rolled for hit points -- they were just for use with the Regeneration trait, which I made a reaction triggered when taking damage. It worked okay, but ultimately I thought it didn't feel like it was getting close to feeling like a troll. It felt like some weird offshoot race. So I went back to a simpler Regeneration trait:

Regeneration: At the start of your turn, you regain a number of hit points equal to your proficiency bonus. When you take acid or fire damage, your regeneration doesn’t function for the next 10 minutes. You die only if you start your turn with 0 hit points and do not regenerate.
Mascentian trolls use the “Loathsome Limbs” variant in the sidebar on page 291 of the Monster Manual.

 

[JEB]

Thanks, @Cap'n Kobold!

Bite is effectively the same as the Claws trait. I'd suggest simply merging it into the base class able to deal Piercing and slashing damage with their unarmed attacks.

I did actually try and build it this way originally, but I wasn't happy with the wording. Also, leaving Bite out gave me something to add on in a later feat.

I am warming to the idea of making Bite a bonus action attack, however. Possibly doing less damage, and possibly linked to the base claws attack much like the minotaur's Hammering Horns. Still pondering.

The feat could do with something else. I would suggest a benefit of some sort to when you roll HD to heal. Maybe add your Proficiency bonus?

Interesting idea. But they already get to add their Con bonus to a HD, which starts with a likely 17 (+3) and can get bumped further every time they take one of the troll feats, so I'm reluctant to add proficiency on top of that...

• Could probably do with something else as well. Maybe giving additional HD (since these are a rather limited resource.)

I did consider a healing reserve sort of thing, along those lines; see my comments to @NotAYakk. As noted earlier, I was worried it stepped on some core class features.

As an alternative to the above thoughts on Bite, I am considering moving Bite to the 8th level Fortitude feat, and making it an unrestricted bonus action. Might restore the 10 minute upgrade to the 4th level feat (I like having a nod to the Ring of Regeneration).

This just seems like two ribbons. It is unlikely that a Troll character will have a Dex high enough to use their Natural Armour rather than worn armour.
There are very few mechanics in 5e that chop off nonvital body parts.
You could probably happily remove this feat and drop the higher-level one down to this level.

I agree. As noted earlier, I'm now leaning towards replacing the AC bonus with the reaction-regeneration from the 16th level feat (and making the 16th level feat every-turn regeneration).

Large weapons: The suggestion that a weapon scaled to fit you is a different proficiency doesn't really fit in terms of thematics or mechanics. There would be more of an argument that you would have trouble using a medium-sized greatsword when you are large sized, since it is no longer scaled to your proportions. PCs don't lose their proficiency in their weapons when they grow in size and their weapons grow with them through other effects.
Also, many of the classes that this race would be appealing to are automatically proficient in all martial weapons. There are very few which would have specific proficiency in Greatsword (medium).

The thing is, a Large size weapon isn't just a regular-size weapon scaled up, it's literally a larger version of the weapon, like how a greatsword isn't just a really big shortsword. And if your PC trained to use medium-sized weapons, gaining a few feet of height - enough to cross the threshold from a Powerful Build Medium to technically Large - shouldn't radically change how you use weapons.

I have seen it argued elsewhere that Large creatures should get proficiency with Large simple weapons but not Large martial weapons, which is a possibility. But not sure.

(Note that when your weapons magically grow through the Enlarge spell, they don't actually function like the Large weapons wielded by monsters - they add 1d4 instead of doubling their damage. Likewise, Enlarged creatures get advantage on all Strength checks and saves, which actual Large creatures do not; suggesting that the spell isn't quite the same effect as "actually" being Large.)

 

[JEB]

In regard to Large Weapons, Call of the Netherdeep uses the Pathfinder ruling with large weapons in which the Damage Die of a weapon is bumped up by one step. so 2D6 becomes 2D8, 1D6 becomes 1D8, 2D4 becomes 2D6, etc etc.

If that's the way they're going in 2024 edition, that would not only be useful here, but might make it easier to have Large PCs in the official rules...

 

[JEB]

With my troll PC race, I played around with giving extra hit dice equal to Proficiency Bonus, that were not rolled for hit points -- they were just for use with the Regeneration trait, which I made a reaction triggered when taking damage. It worked okay, but ultimately I thought it didn't feel like it was getting close to feeling like a troll. It felt like some weird offshoot race. So I went back to a simpler Regeneration trait:

Your trait is pretty cool. I think I want to stick with basing mine on Dwarven Fortitude (I'm very keen to parallel official rules and balance when possible), but that is pretty good.