Tropes that need to die

[Pseudonym]

Especially that one guy who plays a rogue and steals from the rest of the party under the pretence of roleplaying.

Halfling assassin in our group's case. Let's broaden that to thieving halflings regardless of class.

 

[gamerprinter]

I actually really like meritocracies for exactly this reason. If the king had to quest for a Grail, endure ordeals or pass through a gauntlet of tests, that spices a kingdom up rather considerably. Doesn't necessarily mean he's high-level, mind, depending on the tests, but a meritocracy produces interesting rulers.

While all this might be true for Arthur, answer me this, who was King of Britain after Arthur? Can you name any of the next 20 kings of Britain after Arthur? Probably because Arthur was the hero king, than his sons or rather his replacements were not. Not every King of Britain was a King Arthur, otherwise no one would remember the name as he was just like every other heroic king of Britain.

Meritocracies make sense, but then keeping power on the throne prevents meritocracies from happening. It might be a good idea for a generation or two, but eventually some king wants to keep in the family and it becomes an aristocracy eventually.

Now if we're talking Celtic Kingship and tannistry, well, that's much closer to a mertocracy. While the King still had to be of noble birth, it wasn't necessarily a father to son thing. Kingship was represented by the best representing hero king. Once the hero king was too weak to meet the criteria, he was voted off the throne and the next most worthy noble Celt ascended the clan throne. More than likely related to the previous king, but just as likely not his son.

GP

 

[gamerprinter]

Oh and graveyards came about as forced action by the Catholic Church. IT was part of a propoganda/fear campaign to force the people of Europe further under the church's thumb. They told horror stories about all the terrible things that happened if bodies were not buried on hallowed ground next to a church. Of course the sticker was the fact that your family could only be buried safely if you were a good christian, etc etc. How very convenient of the church.

What of the Neandrethals that practiced death burial? Those damned Neandrethal Catholics again - stirring up trouble.

GP

Guys, stay away from discussion of real-world religions, please. Thanks! - Piratecat

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

2. The Court Wizard - Look at the wizard spell list, now look at the cleric spell list. Hmmm, throwing Fireballs and Lightning Bolts or Heal spells and Neutralize Poison. I know as a powerful king I want both guys working for me, but in reality I want the court cleric at my side 24/7. He can check my food for poison, remove any pesky diseases, and in the event of an attack heal me while my guards kill the assassin(s). But because of Merlin we have court wizards and the nearest cleric who can save the kings life is down the street in the cathedral. Well no more.

Real-life kingdoms often had the king's confessor, who had a lot of power since the king kept confessing to him! But maybe think the separation of church and state was bigger in medieval western Europe than it really was. (And of course, Christianity-analogues are missing in many fantasy settings.)

Other tropes: Kingly classes! Well, there's no noble class that I've seen (although there are some sweet 4e controller noble types), but I think warlord is closest to what you're looking for. I don't know if it has the correct class skills, but a PC could pull it off with some Skill Training feats.

 

[Barastrondo]

While all this might be true for Arthur, answer me this, who was King of Britain after Arthur? Can you name any of the next 20 kings of Britain after Arthur? Probably because Arthur was the hero king, than his sons or rather his replacements were not. Not every King of Britain was a King Arthur, otherwise no one would remember the name as he was just like every other heroic king of Britain.

Yeah, pretty much like I said: meritocracies lead to more interesting monarchs on the throne, which is why I like 'em. You can certainly get good intrigues from people who are "qualified" by virtue of their parentage trying to keep a hold of their power, of course. But meritocracies have, in my experience, led to the players getting more personally interested in the local rulers ("Duke Ironstorm? How'd he get that name?"), and of course they naturally lead the players to consider making bids for rulership without having to retroactively insert royal blood into their backgrounds or consign themselves to marrying nobles instead of fellow heroes/divine agents/whathaveyou.

This may vary if player characters are taken with the romance of breeding, mind, but my group's a little more taken with the romance of skill, wisdom and cunning.

Meritocracies make sense, but then keeping power on the throne prevents meritocracies from happening. It might be a good idea for a generation or two, but eventually some king wants to keep in the family and it becomes an aristocracy eventually.

Sure, and then the aristocracy winds up having problems with the sort of troubles that beset a D&D world, casting about desperately for meritorious individuals who can defend the realm, and enter the PCs -- who, if the aristos aren't all that, may well revert the kingdom back to a meritocracy. Another thing that I do enjoy about D&D; the stronghold phase simply isn't limited to people who wrote "noble background" on their character sheets.

 

[Sorrowdusk]

The funny thing is that even when you consider the full varieties that a fantasy world allows it still does make the most sense that most Kings are fighters.

What about the Wizard Kings? There's got to be some of those.

The trope I want to die... the adventurer. How many people walk around "looking for adventure", risking their life all the time to find money so they can buy a shinier sword so they can kill more things to get more money to buy shinier other things? It's stupid. Now yes, I have to admit I'm coming from a more serious gamer point of view, but I like my campaigns to be like books, there is room for humor and suspension of disbelief, but the fact that all PC's are built off of a model that almost no sane person would follow is just absurd.

At least pathfinder tried to help this by making the pathfinder society, meaning PC's are affiliated with a group and their job is to do these things (though the fact its still all about buying more shiney's doesn't help).

why can't a game focus on making characters have some kind of purpose, even if it's just being famous or accumulating wealth in an RP sense?

And couldnt an 'adventurer' just be a kind of name for a wandering mercenary or 'sellword'? An even in real life, there were treasure hunters, tomb looters, etc.

I'd like to see the trope of "That's not realistic" die.

I'd like to see the end of entire races being evil alignment and let only individuals have the evil alignment.

Hafling rogues.

Elvish rangers.

Dwarves with scottish accents.

Elves with surfboarder (as in wow, okay dude) accents.

Stoner/Cali-Elves? Where have there ever been those?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

What about the Wizard Kings? There's got to be some of those.

Especially in FR :/

Wizards don't make great kings, as they tend to lack social skills and people often view them with suspicion.

"His father died of old age."

"Oh really?"

Of course, NPCs can break the rules.

And couldnt an 'adventurer' just be a kind of name for a wandering mercenary or 'sellword'?

They have those in real life, as you point out. Only in DnD, they're more specialized.

 

[Lanefan]

Look through most published modules. Tell me how many graveyards dont have at least a few undead wandering in them. Technically they should be hallowed ground but they never are. The resurrection arguement may work for important people but 99% of the "occupants" of a graveyard are Bob the peasant or Fred the blacksmith. No one is ever going to raise them from the dead.

I'd think Bob the peasant and Fred the Blacksmith make just as good zombies as old Mayor George or Janet the Archdeacon...

Lan-"Necromancers are so much fun"-efan

 

[Lanefan]

Halfling assassin in our group's case. Let's broaden that to thieving halflings regardless of class.

Funny - there's one of those LE Hobbit Assassin things in my Friday game and he's well on the way to becoming the glue that holds the party together! Lose him, and they're in big trouble.

Lanefan

 

[Saeviomagy]

1. Cemeteries - In the average fantasy world there are dozens of ways that corpses can come back to life, reanimate, or shed their body to become evil spirits that then prey on the living. This does not even take onto the various evil experiments performed by mad wizards.

So why are there cemeteries? I am in the process of creating a small town as a campaign starting point and one item I added was the pier of mourning. This is a seaside community and they have one stone pier jutting out into the bay used for funerals. The bodies of dead townspeople are wrapped in cloth, piled with wood, and burned in a pyre the day of the their or the immediate following day. The ashes are then allowed to blow into the sea. No dead bodies left around means less chance of the dead coming back. Really the idea of burying bodies when it takes a low level spell to animate them just sounds silly when you think of it.

Given that people in the real world were worried about this (hence the whole "bury them then drop a half-ton slab of stone on top of the grave" approach in places), it's not really an issue. Also see various acts of burying people at crossroads (so their ghost won't be able to tell which way to go to get revenge) or in other odd conditions.

And boy, are you going to look like a dufus when you finally score a lucky free raise dead off a kindly passing adventurer, and you had the body of your lover burnt and spread to the winds....

2. The Court Wizard - Look at the wizard spell list, now look at the cleric spell list. Hmmm, throwing Fireballs and Lightning Bolts or Heal spells and Neutralize Poison. I know as a powerful king I want both guys working for me, but in reality I want the court cleric at my side 24/7. He can check my food for poison, remove any pesky diseases, and in the event of an attack heal me while my guards kill the assassin(s). But because of Merlin we have court wizards and the nearest cleric who can save the kings life is down the street in the cathedral. Well no more.

This is something that applies only in 3.5, and is pretty much fixed in 4. In 4 you get "that guy who knows rituals", be he a cleric, wizard, bard or fighter who dabbles.

3. The Party A$ - Not sure how to explain this one.

It's pretty easy. It's only really a D&D trope because it's assumed that the party starts out pre-formed out of whatever characters the group came up with.

If you actually try to have some backstory and history as to why a group are together (or play out the circumstances of their coming together), then the problem isn't there. Either the jerk has a good story reason why people put up with him, or he's not a member of the party.