Trophies as Treasure Parcels

[bardolph]

Ever notice that some players like to take trophies from their kills?

For example, the skin of a cave bear, the tooth of a dragon, the beak from an owlbear, the face of a doppleganger, the spinner glands from a giant spider, etc etc etc.

I happen to be one of these players (on the rare occasions that I'm not behind the DM screen). Somehow, an troll's head is much more meaningful to me as a trophy than a pile of gold pieces.

I was thinking, why not incorporate this into the treasure parcel system? Here's how it could work:

If a character takes an unusual interest in a kill and harvests a body part from it as a trophy, simply pick a treasure parcel, figure out its value in gold pieces, and that's its "trophy value."

And here's where it gets fun: a trophy that gets incorporated into a magic item created by the "Create Magic Item" ritual can count the entire "trophy value" as residuum!

EXAMPLE: a first level party defeats a Cave Bear, and decides to carefully skin its hide as a trophy. The DM determines that this encounter will yield Parcel #3 (Magic Item, Level 3). So rather than placing a level 3 magic item somewhere in the lair, the DM decides that the cave bear hide has a "trophy value" of 680 gp.

The PCs can decide to make a very nice cave bear skin rug that could sell for 680 gp as an art object, or even better, use it as 680 gp worth of residuum to make a suit of Bloodcut Hide Armor +1. You know what I'm talking about -- one of those numbers where the shoulder pads are covered in fur and the head of the bear rests over your head like a badass barbarian head piece...

Either way, the DM checks off the appropriate treasure parcel from the list, and proceeds as normal.

Thoughts?

 

[Nytmare]

I don't know. I'm kinda of the opinion that loot is one thing that really deserved to get beat with the abstraction bat, and it almost seems to have gone in the opposite direction.

My current line of thinking is that players just get a stack of special treasure and a gold piece amount, and everyone understands that that value is a random assortment of coins and gems and mundane items including whatever trophies they want to pry loose from the dungeon and the surrounding fauna.

I want less book keeping, not more. I like to have that granularity in the world, but I don't want to have to keep track of it on a character sheet. Denominations of coins, the kingdoms where they were minted, qualities of values of gems and jewelry vs their expected values vs what the dealers have offered for them... These are all things I want to at least give the illusion of, but one fewer notecard or spreadsheet full of information like this frees up a lot of time and energy for more important parts of the game.

 

[fba827]

A good start to a system, but it really depends on how much detail you want to keep track of.

I love(!) the idea - it would add lots of flavor and 'neatness'. But in practice, I know the players in my group don't always do a good job of tracking any loot that isn't easily divisible coin; the bookkeeping may be more trouble than it's worth.

Having said that, if your group is comfortable with it and/or likes it, by all means, go for it. The flavor would be fun!

 

[Starfox]

The problem as I see it is that this becomes a role-play tax on the players who want to keep their trophies on the mantelpiece, not incorporate them into magic items.

 

[bardolph]

The problem as I see it is that this becomes a role-play tax on the players who want to keep their trophies on the mantelpiece, not incorporate them into magic items.

Naah, if the PCs aren't expecting to pull value from it, it's free.

The real point is that if the wizard thinks it's cool to harvest glands and hair and tongues for his crazy-ass rituals, he can. And if the barbarian wants to make a bear-skin suit of magic armor, he can. And if the rogue wants to make a wicked magical dagger out of a dragon's tooth, he can.

All it takes is the PCs making it clear that that's what they intend to do, and the DM can oblige by counting that stuff as treasure parcels.

It also avoids having to justify out how three giant spiders ended up with a pile of 400 gp + a 250gp art object + 2 potions of healing, or whatever.

I don't know. I'm kinda of the opinion that loot is one thing that really deserved to get beat with the abstraction bat, and it almost seems to have gone in the opposite direction.

That's the whole point! Residuum is abstract! Basically what I'm saying is that any time the DM thinks it isn't appropriate to express treasure in terms of magic items and cash (which would be the case for just about anything that isn't an intelligent humanoid), give it to them as residuum instead. Whether that residuum comes from organs, or teeth, or eyeballs, or hair, or a pint of blood, or "ectoplasm" or "bottled rage" or "a demon's last dying breath" or ... whatever -- it doesn't matter. It's anything the PCs and the DM thinks is cool. Assign it a cash value, call it "residuum," and mark it off the parcel list.

It's not even necessary to do any bookkeeping on it. If it's important to the PCs, they'll remember what it was, and use it to flavor their rituals and magic items. Otherwise, it just counts as "generic" residuum -- use it for whatever you want and move on.

 

[Artoomis]

Well, if it works for you and your group, go for it.

I would discourage it generally, though, as it runs counter to the 4e concept which is,m at its core, a return to a simpler D&D where things such as this are not part of the game.

I think such things can quickly get out of control until you have issues where trophy-taking sorts of things takes over the game.

 

[Narcetus]

I like this idea as it is non invasive to the system and enhances rp and character developement. It solves the problems of stashing loot in inappropriate encounters. I get sick of the old cliche of: oh look a previous victim of the giant spiders just happened to have 400 gp and a couple potions. how lucky for us. I like to encourage players to skip or bypass encounters through stealth or subterfuge and give full xp for it , without players worrying if thier is a rod of corruption in the ettercaps refuse heap.

Also it is no inconveniance for a player to note on his char sheet that he has a claw from a ghoul worht x amount of residuum that he hopes to make a necrotic themed item out of. Anyone that doest care just adds x amount of residuum on thier sheet. No complexity, no time wasted. That is a big win for players trying to feel immersed in the story.

Plus it reminds me of the old theme of harvesting magical potency from mythical creatures: unicorn horns, dragon hearts, troll blood, etc. I ran several adventures based on the BBEG capturing fairy folk to power scary rituals with their magical life essance. Its a cool trope of fiction and now players can get in on that.

Another good reason to do that is you could ran a low money game all the way to epic with this. I hate having 20 ish level pcs with a million gp on hand.

If you do this sparingly it wont feel as if the party ar a bunch of crazy vivisectionists butchering everything in thier path.

 

[Prism]

We do this. We did it in 3e with our Celtic themed no coinage campaign and we also do it in 4e from time to time. We also allow all sorts of things to replace residium just like you suggest and in the past have created several items from monster body parts. In fact this often gives you some good ideas of what items to create. In fact 4e is good in this regard as items aren't generally that important I have found so you are free to create fun stuff rather than always optimal stuff

Without this kind of addition to the 4e ruleset I think i'd begin to find it all a bit mechanical

 

[eriktheguy]

There was a thread a few days back on harvesting components from dragons in the house rules section.

One of the popular suggestions was to make the harvested components one of the groups treasure parcels and give it a value in risiduum. The DM then secretly snatches away another treasure parcel the group would have found later on.

I don't like that suggestion because I hate screwing the players over. If they grab some extra treasure, don't take away other treasure they were going to earn to 'balance things out'. You're discouraging creative thinking, subverting their efforts, and reminding them that they aren't in charge. As far as I'm concerned that 'no-no' is right up there with rescuing your recurring villains when they are beaten fair and square, and forcing PCs to go on a quest or enter a room they don't want to.

When the players loot the corpses for components I usually allow it to be used for a fair discount for an appropriate magic item, or to be disenchanted to 20% that value in residuum.

Trophies are different things entirely. A dragon's head over the mantle piece obviously never counts against treasure, and it looks cool. I love to allow them to impress NPCs or gain other RP benefits from trophies.

And no, when they gain an RP benefit from trophies I do not take away a treasure parcel to compensate.

 

[bardolph]

There was a thread a few days back on harvesting components from dragons in the house rules section.

One of the popular suggestions was to make the harvested components one of the groups treasure parcels and give it a value in risiduum. The DM then secretly snatches away another treasure parcel the group would have found later on.

I don't like that suggestion because I hate screwing the players over.

I don't see it as screwing the players over, but rather as letting the players decide what's important to them and giving them treasure to match their tastes. If dragon-heart-as-residuum is more interesting to them than pile-of-gold-plus-art-objects, then dragon heart it is.

The parcel system in this case serves as an abstraction to determine rewards "as you go," rather than determining treasure ahead of time.

If they grab some extra treasure, don't take away other treasure they were going to earn to 'balance things out'. You're discouraging creative thinking, subverting their efforts, and reminding them that they aren't in charge.

I think it encourages creative thinking, by allowing the players to "flavor" their own rewards rather than sticking strictly to what's already in the module.

The idea is that the challenge/reward system is fixed for purposes of game balance, but that the players and DM collaborate to determine the exact details along the way.

Everybody wins.

Trophies are different things entirely. A dragon's head over the mantle piece obviously never counts against treasure, and it looks cool. I love to allow them to impress NPCs or gain other RP benefits from trophies.

And no, when they gain an RP benefit from trophies I do not take away a treasure parcel to compensate.

Agreed.