Game Design: Acquiring Equipment as Part of Game Play

[MGibster]

Once upon a time, in a kingdom far, far away, lived a little boy who really enjoyed poring over equipment lists, especially those with dozens upon dozens of polearms, deciding how best to spend my gold on equipment. Lucerne hammer or glaive. You better believe Lucerne. I don’t have enough for a horse, but a mule should work for now. Looks like chain + shield is the best combination I can afford right now. I can buy cigars from Maztica? Okay, looks like I’m going with studded leather + shield instead. I don’t know if cigars will help me survive but I’ll look pretty boss smoking stogie while dealing damage.

But as the little boy grew older, he grew disenchanted and selecting equipment became a chore. “Do I need a basic processor for all cyberware or just neuralware?” he cried out in pain. “Can I just spend 100 gold and write down ‘camping equipment’ on my character sheet?” he pleaded. That little boy was Paul Harvey, and now you know the rest of the story. Er, okay, it’s me. I was that little boy, but now I’m a cynical fuddy duddy who doesn’t really care to spend time looking over equipment lists.

I’ve started to wonder if my aversion to the tedious task of parceling out equipment to my characters is because it’s not directly connected game play. I mean it’s important to playing the game, but it’s not always directly part of playing the game. The idea of spending too much time picking equipment just isn’t fun for me and that’s especially true if I have tons of options for modifying weapons, armor, and other equipment.

Do any games do a good job of incorporating equipment selection/acquisition to actually playing the game? In a way, AD&D did. The game was predicated on our characters being on a never ending treadmill of acquiring treasure/magic item upgrades, using that treasure and those upgrades to become more power, so we can go out and start the cycle all over again. But that kind of became moot at least by 5th edition because they removed the need for treasure in order to train and become more powerful.

 

[Starfox]

Not sure if this is at all what you want, but in Blades in the Dark you don't select your equipment in advance. You are assumed to have a plan, and that means that when you need a certain piece of equipment, you have it. The limit is that you select your level of load at the start of each mission - light (3), medium (5), or heavy (6+). During the mission you can then select items from the full list as you need it. Here is a DnD-esque list of equipment I am working on:
☐, ☐ means you can have several items of this type. Count load for each.☐-☐ means the item costs several load, you must pay the full load to have a single item.■ means the item has no load cost. Unless listed with commas, you only have a single item.

☐, ☐, ☐ Weapon☐-☐ Large Weapon■ Knife☐ Throwing Knives☐-☐ Armor ☐-☐-☐ +Heavy■ Holy Symbol■ Whistle☐ Musical Instrument■ Tinderbox☐ Torch■ Lamp☐ Lantern☐, ☐, ☐ Oil flask☐ Climbing Gear☐ Hook and 15m Rope☐ Mirror☐, ☐ Caltrops☐-☐ Folding pole (3m)☐ Burglary Gear☐ , ☐ Manacles☐ Subterfuge Supplies☐ Spikes☐-☐ Camping gear☐-☐ Medicine chest☐ Light Tools☐-☐ Heavy Tools☐, ☐, ☐ Documents☐, ☐, ☐ Monster Bribe

 

[Theory of Games]

Do any games do a good job of incorporating equipment selection/acquisition to actually playing the game?

Most Fantasy games and Cyberpunk games. Games that don't: Horror and Superheroes.

 

[aco175]

I was a bit similar to the OP in that when I was a kid I had more free time to look over things and imagine than I do now. When I play now, I want more time spent on other parts of the game.

I sometimes try to bring in special equipment to the game if the PCs travel to another kingdom or farther away. A bit like in movies where the hero gets a samurai sword or whatever that Krull thing was. It makes that PC a bit more unique and the players feels a bit more attached. I did more in 3e with the racial weapons.

 

[GMMichael]

. . . I’ve started to wonder if my aversion to the tedious task of parceling out equipment to my characters is because it’s not directly connected game play. I mean it’s important to playing the game, but it’s not always directly part of playing the game. The idea of spending too much time picking equipment just isn’t fun for me and that’s especially true if I have tons of options for modifying weapons, armor, and other equipment.

My aversion comes from complexity and length of equipment lists. Just tell me the price of a weapon and how much damage it does. That's all I need to know (assuming there's a decent picture nearby, too). The d20srd, 5e, equipment list has about 100 items on it. Signet ring? Bo-ring! Fortunately, there's a kits section, so you can grab a bundle before you pass out from shopping boredom.

Do any games do a good job of incorporating equipment selection/acquisition to actually playing the game? In a way, AD&D did. The game was predicated on our characters being on a never ending treadmill of acquiring treasure/magic item upgrades, using that treasure and those upgrades to become more power, so we can go out and start the cycle all over again. But that kind of became moot at least by 5th edition because they removed the need for treasure in order to train and become more powerful.

So you're looking for a game without shopping? I saw a prehistoric 5RD game on these forums a while back. The most expensive item is probably a stone wheel.

You might look at Cypher System for a respite. The Numenera equipment list looks pretty simple. In addition, one of the big points of the game is that as you go, you discover Cyphers, many of which are just something you find that does something cool or mysterious. Put it on your inventory list, behold and wonder (don't mind the complexity suggested by the name "Cypher System").

 

[Thomas Shey]

Most Fantasy games and Cyberpunk games. Games that don't: Horror and Superheroes.

I think its pretty clear by their standard the first two don't do a good job of it.

 

[Thomas Shey]

My own feeling is that rather than engage it in the game play more, it should just often be done as baked into character creation. While it lets you acquire other things, Eclipse Phase starts you with various packages of equipment depending on background and focus so you can just get rolling without pouring over equipment lists for the most part.

 

[payn]

But as the little boy grew older, he grew disenchanted and selecting equipment became a chore. “Do I need a basic processor for all cyberware or just neuralware?” he cried out in pain. “Can I just spend 100 gold and write down ‘camping equipment’ on my character sheet?” he pleaded. That little boy was Paul Harvey, and now you know the rest of the story. Er, okay, it’s me. I was that little boy, but now I’m a cynical fuddy duddy who doesn’t really care to spend time looking over equipment lists.

Nice reference!

Do any games do a good job of incorporating equipment selection/acquisition to actually playing the game? In a way, AD&D did. The game was predicated on our characters being on a never ending treadmill of acquiring treasure/magic item upgrades, using that treasure and those upgrades to become more power, so we can go out and start the cycle all over again. But that kind of became moot at least by 5th edition because they removed the need for treasure in order to train and become more powerful.

I wanted 3E to be that game. Though, the whole big 6 requiring you to pass cool things for necessary things is a bummer. The math wasnt all that exciting either of all the X items. I've often thought any Fantasy heartbreaker id design would be a lot like 3E/PF1 but with bounded accuracy instead. No more magic items that just do numbers!

Traveller with its flat progression works out pretty great actually. You dont necessarily need piles of survival items, but if the adventure calls for it you can have it. Seems like the gear lists suit more the needs of the narrative than the survival game that so many old schoolers love. YMMV.

 

[MGibster]

Most Fantasy games and Cyberpunk games. Games that don't: Horror and Superheroes.

I was reading through Delta Green, which led to this thread, and for those who are unfamiliar with it, in a nutshell, it's kind of a mashup of Call of Cthulhu and the X-Files (the first DG scenario was published a few months before X-Files debuted). In DG, the player characters are all part of a conspiracy within the US government involved in all sorts of illegal shennanigans which alienates them from the people they love. You lie to your family, you lie to your coworkers, you even lie to your therapist because how are you going to explain you saw a worm the size of a chihuahua spill out of the guts of a man you weren't within your legal rights to shoot?

Your character is probably a member of some federal organization like the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Centers for Disease Control, a US Marshal, etc., etc. so you start with standard equipment someone in your agency would have in the field. i.e. A pistol for an FBI agent. You have the ability to requisition more equipment according to the organization you belong to. An FBI agent could requisition an armored SUV for example whereas personnel with the CDC wouldn't have access to such a vehicle.

Players have to be careful about making use of agency resources because it bring unwanted attention which is generally bad when you're doing illegal things. Sure, your FBI agent can requisition an armored SUV, but someone is going to notice and they're going to want to know why. So you lie. Make a Bureacracy test so your request looks reasonable and above board. Maybe the deputy director owes you a favor so you ask him for the SUV directly bypassing the normal paper trails. Doing this degrades your bond with that director because it places stress on the relationship. Maybe you decide to spend your character's personal money purchasing something equivalent to the armored SUV, so you go into heavy debt which places some strains on your relationship with your family. Or maybe you just steal what you need risking imprisonment. No matter what you do, you're risking your career at the very least.

So getting additional equipment is part of the game play fitting into the idea of alienation.

So you're looking for a game without shopping? I saw a prehistoric 5RD game on these forums a while back. The most expensive item is probably a stone wheel.

Not as such, no. I think that would be somewhat unreasonable on my part. I just don't want to spend a lot of time on it. I don't want to look at a list of gear and determine what I need to buy or make sure I have to ensure my survival riding from point A to point B in a fantasy game.

 

[Theory of Games]

Sure you can get additional gear for DG, but I've played twice where we didn't get anything special. Depends on the mission, mostly. Definitely not the "must have new shiny" aspect of D&D or Shadowrun. I always made sure my horror-rpg PCs had a gun handy, but all I ever shot was the wrong people